Drippy spouts?

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teatray
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Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:52 pm

I bought one and, comparing notes with this thread, I'm starting to think Jinpachi Ogawa teapots are generally poor quality. Or at least, there is a high chance that you get one which is of poor quality. I did not see this thread before my purchase. Maybe it would have dissuaded me from getting one. I believe I searched for "Jinpachi Ogawa" whereas there is no mention of "Ogawa" here. Sorry for resurrecting, but I wish to make it easier to find in the future by including the artist's full name (Jinpachi OGAWA, OGAWA Jinpachi, 小川甚八). I will also add my experience, in case it benefits anyone looking into these pots.

I thought they looked whimsical & fun and got one (from Chaki-Chaki; Artistic Nippon also sells them and even has a page of praise for them; Shiha teapot also sold them in the past). Reading that they handle and pour well certainly helped make up my mind.

In reality, pour is very bad. Beyond making a mess at the onset, mine has a very thin, non-laminar flow that breaks apart a short distance from the spout. It looks more like peeing than pouring. That actually wasn't the deal breaker for me -- it was so ridiculous and unpractical that I just took it as part of its whimsical nature and was willing to work with it anyway. (My weird pink peeing teapot, for when I'm bored of the more conventional ones, or something.)

The real problem is that the clay is also pretty horrible, with a kinda sweet but overall very unpleasant smell & taste that just doesn't want to go away after many brews and also boiling the pot. Maybe it was badly fired or maybe the maker wanted to rely on the inner glaze to keep the stank away from the tea. But the inner glaze is also poorly applied: it's glassy for the most part but there are many rough, discolored patches that are not properly glazed. Thus, the stink & taste transfer readily into the tea. I find the resulting brews undrinkable (tried all kings of strong teas).

I'm having at least three issues (clay, glaze, pour) and I'm not the only one with complaints. Please consider carefully before getting one of these. I wonder if there is anybody with a really good Jinpachi Ogawa experience?
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Baisao
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Mon Jun 27, 2022 10:26 pm

@teatray, I don’t have experience with this specific potter but did encounter pouring issues that have resolved themselves with time/experience. Smelly clays and glazes are unforgivable. However, I am curious if the pouring issues will resolve for you with time/experience if you revisit the teapot some years from now.

Some of the pots in the link you shared look like they’ll have a problematic pour while others look like they’ll be fine.

I wish I could try your kyusu to see if I could make it pour better but it would be all for naught if it makes bad tasting tea.

FWIW, Inge Nielsen’s pots have some of the best pours I’ve encountered outside of the living Yamadas. @klepto can attest.
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teatray
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Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:02 am

Ha! I ordered a 100ml "Carbontrap" Inge Nielsen teapot last week per an earlier recommendation of yours (from when another pot failed me). Waiting for it to arrive from Belgium any day now. My quest for a small glazed teapot has been long, but at least it's from the luxury of already owning a good 225ml (by Mayuki Kato, that's just a tad inconvenient for 100C steeps due to the side-handle getting hot but I learned to forgive its small faults for the excellent brews it gives me). BTW, I thought Inge was a guy before seeing the Etsy portrait when ordering. It seems like 99% of the pots I see are made by male artists, so if my good glazed pots both turn out to be made by women, there would be an (almost) statistically sound recommendation to make.

I tried to learn to pour with the Jinpachi. I can reduce the mess at the start with a sharp flick of the wrist, but it has to be precise as it also likes leaking from the lid, if you overshoot the movement even a little bit. Once started, it's always peeing rather than pouring, however. In a way, the handling faults are so many, they cross the line from annoying to amusing, kinda fitting with the overall comical appearance (mine is also pink to top it off). I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up enjoying using it, if it didn't ruin the brews.
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LeoFox
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Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:37 am

Regarding jinpachi:

https://www.artisticnippon.com/product/ ... achi1.html
He believes that a teapot only becomes worthy of the name when it is used to make good tea, and always has this thought in the back of his mind during the crafting process. He says that 90% of the secret of making good tea lies in the water. The other 10% is divided between the type of tea leaves used, the brewer’s technique and the quality of the teapot. It is within this tiny margin that he applies his efforts, confronting the issues involved with a philosopher’s zeal and an artist’s focus. His ultimate aim is achieve a perfect balance between the different parts of the teapot in order to produce the best tasting tea. I tried pouring with a number of his teapots and each time I was struck by the quality of the "pour". I also noticed a certain difference in touch between Jinpachi's pieces and Tokoname ware.
May want to ask AN what he means by quality of the pour
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LeoFox
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Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:19 pm

Check the video of this pot - then read the description

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1258678075 ... e_27&sts=1
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Baisao
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Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:46 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:19 pm
Check the video of this pot - then read the description

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1258678075 ... e_27&sts=1
That’s hilarious! “Fine Art” :lol: :lol: :lol:

It might as well have a hole in the bottom
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teamakers.art
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Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:17 pm

Baisao wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:46 pm
LeoFox wrote:
Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:19 pm
Check the video of this pot - then read the description

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1258678075 ... e_27&sts=1
That’s hilarious! “Fine Art” :lol: :lol: :lol:

It might as well have a hole in the bottom
I was seriously imagining a tea waterfall polishing the pot like river rocks... and thinking wow.. really?
Gullible me haha.. teapot info overload.. need rest lol.
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LeoFox
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Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm

teatray wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:52 pm
I bought one and, comparing notes with this thread, I'm starting to think Jinpachi Ogawa teapots are generally poor quality. Or at least, there is a high chance that you get one which is of poor quality. I did not see this thread before my purchase. Maybe it would have dissuaded me from getting one. I believe I searched for "Jinpachi Ogawa" whereas there is no mention of "Ogawa" here. Sorry for resurrecting, but I wish to make it easier to find in the future by including the artist's full name (Jinpachi OGAWA, OGAWA Jinpachi, 小川甚八). I will also add my experience, in case it benefits anyone looking into these pots.

I thought they looked whimsical & fun and got one (from Chaki-Chaki; Artistic Nippon also sells them and even has a page of praise for them; Shiha teapot also sold them in the past). Reading that they handle and pour well certainly helped make up my mind.

In reality, pour is very bad. Beyond making a mess at the onset, mine has a very thin, non-laminar flow that breaks apart a short distance from the spout. It looks more like peeing than pouring. That actually wasn't the deal breaker for me -- it was so ridiculous and unpractical that I just took it as part of its whimsical nature and was willing to work with it anyway. (My weird pink peeing teapot, for when I'm bored of the more conventional ones, or something.)

The real problem is that the clay is also pretty horrible, with a kinda sweet but overall very unpleasant smell & taste that just doesn't want to go away after many brews and also boiling the pot. Maybe it was badly fired or maybe the maker wanted to rely on the inner glaze to keep the stank away from the tea. But the inner glaze is also poorly applied: it's glassy for the most part but there are many rough, discolored patches that are not properly glazed. Thus, the stink & taste transfer readily into the tea. I find the resulting brews undrinkable (tried all kings of strong teas).

I'm having at least three issues (clay, glaze, pour) and I'm not the only one with complaints. Please consider carefully before getting one of these. I wonder if there is anybody with a really good Jinpachi Ogawa experience?
Teatray generously sent this pink peeing teapot my way.

Here is video of pour:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsCIeXHu ... IwNjQ2YQ==

Here is another video filled 170/200 ml
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsCbBw9u ... IwNjQ2YQ==

17-18 sec to empty 170 ml

Also did taste test -

Compared hot water sitting 10 min in vessel versus same water sitting for same time in glass. Difference is not notable to me - but I am a little sick right now so will need to try again later


Pot:
Last edited by LeoFox on Tue May 09, 2023 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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teatray
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Tue May 09, 2023 6:31 pm

I'd be interested to know whether you get the same bad taste with tea inside. If sick / quick first pour / both, it might not be that noticeable at first, but soon enough it becomes hard to ignore: an unpleasant, heavy sweetness. Switching up hi-mnt oolong / sencha / roasted oolong produced a very similar deficiency & sodium percarbonate cleaning didn't help (which was the point I gave up).
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LeoFox
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Wed May 10, 2023 7:31 am

teatray wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 6:31 pm
I'd be interested to know whether you get the same bad taste with tea inside. If sick / quick first pour / both, it might not be that noticeable at first, but soon enough it becomes hard to ignore: an unpleasant, heavy sweetness. Switching up hi-mnt oolong / sencha / roasted oolong produced a very similar deficiency & sodium percarbonate cleaning didn't help (which was the point I gave up).
Pour seems quite relaxing with tea. Using jasmine here:

viewtopic.php?p=47597#p47597
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Baisao
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Wed May 10, 2023 12:40 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm
teatray wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:52 pm
I bought one and, comparing notes with this thread, I'm starting to think Jinpachi Ogawa teapots are generally poor quality. Or at least, there is a high chance that you get one which is of poor quality. I did not see this thread before my purchase. Maybe it would have dissuaded me from getting one. I believe I searched for "Jinpachi Ogawa" whereas there is no mention of "Ogawa" here. Sorry for resurrecting, but I wish to make it easier to find in the future by including the artist's full name (Jinpachi OGAWA, OGAWA Jinpachi, 小川甚八). I will also add my experience, in case it benefits anyone looking into these pots.

I thought they looked whimsical & fun and got one (from Chaki-Chaki; Artistic Nippon also sells them and even has a page of praise for them; Shiha teapot also sold them in the past). Reading that they handle and pour well certainly helped make up my mind.

In reality, pour is very bad. Beyond making a mess at the onset, mine has a very thin, non-laminar flow that breaks apart a short distance from the spout. It looks more like peeing than pouring. That actually wasn't the deal breaker for me -- it was so ridiculous and unpractical that I just took it as part of its whimsical nature and was willing to work with it anyway. (My weird pink peeing teapot, for when I'm bored of the more conventional ones, or something.)

The real problem is that the clay is also pretty horrible, with a kinda sweet but overall very unpleasant smell & taste that just doesn't want to go away after many brews and also boiling the pot. Maybe it was badly fired or maybe the maker wanted to rely on the inner glaze to keep the stank away from the tea. But the inner glaze is also poorly applied: it's glassy for the most part but there are many rough, discolored patches that are not properly glazed. Thus, the stink & taste transfer readily into the tea. I find the resulting brews undrinkable (tried all kings of strong teas).

I'm having at least three issues (clay, glaze, pour) and I'm not the only one with complaints. Please consider carefully before getting one of these. I wonder if there is anybody with a really good Jinpachi Ogawa experience?
Teatray generously sent this pink peeing teapot my way.

Here is video of pour:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsCIeXHu ... IwNjQ2YQ==

Here is another video filled 170/200 ml
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsCbBw9u ... IwNjQ2YQ==

17-18 sec to empty 170 ml

Also did taste test -

Compared hot water sitting 10 min in vessel versus same water sitting for same time in glass. Difference is not notable to me - but I am a little sick right now so will need to try again later


Pot:

The second pour is more indicative of how this pot should pour since it is a Japanese pot and is made for the Japanese brewing style. Apart from “peeing” the tea out of its spout, which is inline with @teatray’s other Freudian teapot, I see nothing much wrong with the pour of this kyusu.

I don’t think anyone would say that the pour on Emu Yamada pots are lacking. They are esteemed for having the best pouring of all kyusu. I took one with a volume of 215ml and overfilled it to 180ml to match the one above. Using an acaia Pearl scale I measured a pour time of 24s! The average speed was 7.5ml/s but it was flowing at 9.5ml/s at its maximum.

Ideally this Emu kyusu would be filled to a volume of 100-150ml so the evacuation speed would be shorter, but so would the pink penis kyusu in the videos above.
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Victoria
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Wed May 10, 2023 1:01 pm

Nice pear skin Emu @Baisao so true about skillful pour. Everytime I look at the light hitting the surface on mine, and touch its texture, I am moved by its artistry and beauty. 🍃
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Baisao
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Wed May 10, 2023 1:08 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:01 pm
Nice pear skin Emu Baisao so true about skillful pour. Everytime I look at the light hitting the surface on mine, and touch its texture, I am moved by its artistry and beauty. 🍃
They are stunners. The pour is mesmerizing too. I'm so glad you have one too.

Some kyusu are inappropriate for brewing balled oolongs and this would be one of them. They are however great for brewing other teas like sencha or BLC.
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Victoria
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Wed May 10, 2023 1:19 pm

Baisao wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:08 pm
Victoria wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:01 pm
Nice pear skin Emu Baisao so true about skillful pour. Everytime I look at the light hitting the surface on mine, and touch its texture, I am moved by its artistry and beauty. 🍃
They are stunners. The pour is mesmerizing too. I'm so glad you have one too.

Some kyusu are inappropriate for brewing balled oolongs and this would be one of them. They are however great for brewing other teas like sencha or BLC.
Hmm, I have two and use them both with high mountain and sencha. No issue with balled oolong at my end.
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Baisao
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Wed May 10, 2023 6:25 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:19 pm
Baisao wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:08 pm
Victoria wrote:
Wed May 10, 2023 1:01 pm
Nice pear skin Emu Baisao so true about skillful pour. Everytime I look at the light hitting the surface on mine, and touch its texture, I am moved by its artistry and beauty. 🍃
They are stunners. The pour is mesmerizing too. I'm so glad you have one too.

Some kyusu are inappropriate for brewing balled oolongs and this would be one of them. They are however great for brewing other teas like sencha or BLC.
Hmm, I have two and use them both with high mountain and sencha. No issue with balled oolong at my end.
I wouldn’t ideally use a Japanese teapot for high mountain but it can work. Japanese and Chinese teapots are made for different brewing styles. Of course there is some crossover. I’ve seen some Yixing JLZ that were made for senchado, for example. And if you know what you’re doing you can make wonderful tea in a bowl. “Inappropriate” is a poor choice of words. I think, perhaps it’s more accurate to say it is less ideal.
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