Silver teaware

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Brent D
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:57 pm

I recently came across silver gong fu pots and cups in an article. Never thought of them as Ive been a porcelain and Yixing user since my tea drinking began. The more I looked into them, the more I found people really like this stuff. What experiences have you had with silver pots and cups?
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CWarren
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm

Brent D wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:57 pm
I recently came across silver gong fu pots and cups in an article. Never thought of them as Ive been a porcelain and Yixing user since my tea drinking began. The more I looked into them, the more I found people really like this stuff. What experiences have you had with silver pots and cups?
Not only do they retain heat very well but they also make everything brighter, (more pronounced). Even without a pot a simple silver cup can really make a tea shine, (pun intended).
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steanze
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:47 pm

CWarren wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm
Not only do they retain heat very well but they also make everything brighter, (more pronounced). Even without a pot a simple silver cup can really make a tea shine, (pun intended).
Mm I am a bit surprised that you found silver to retain heat well, since it is the metal with highest thermal conductivity: https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=19091

How did you measure heat retention?
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CWarren
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Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:44 pm

steanze wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:47 pm
CWarren wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm
Not only do they retain heat very well but they also make everything brighter, (more pronounced). Even without a pot a simple silver cup can really make a tea shine, (pun intended).
Mm I am a bit surprised that you found silver to retain heat well, since it is the metal with highest thermal conductivity: https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=19091

How did you measure heat retention?
No measurements other than the fact that a silver cup side by side with other cups such as yixing, jianshui, porcelain, etc will stay hot to the touch much longer than the others most of them with cooled down tea while the silver contains still warm to hot tea. Not a scientist just a tea drinker but maybe I’ll take my digital laser infrared thermometer out next time for the sake of tea science. :lol:
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steanze
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Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:29 pm

CWarren wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:44 pm

No measurements other than the fact that a silver cup side by side with other cups such as yixing, jianshui, porcelain, etc will stay hot to the touch much longer than the others most of them with cooled down tea while the silver contains still warm to hot tea. Not a scientist just a tea drinker but maybe I’ll take my digital laser infrared thermometer out next time for the sake of tea science. :lol:
A silver cup might be hotter to the touch because it is dissipating heat (i.e. a thermos is less hot to the touch than a paper cup). If the tea in it stays hot for longer when the cup is of similar size and shape that would be quite surprising
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Bok
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Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:51 am

Probably a cross post from over the old abandoned teachat :lol:
Silver is only good for top and I mean really premium teas!

Even only -very good- tea can become very unpleasant to drink.
Just boiling water in a silver kettle has already a noticeable effect. I used an antique heirloom a few times, found out the tea I was using was probably not good enough for it...

Think Teamasters most expensive offers will maybe hold up.

Just back from Japan, they have some really beautiful silver pots there. Prices are accordingly.
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Brent D
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:28 am

Thanks for the input folks!
I think I might get one someday. It would be a great way to test if a tea is as good as I think it is.
Not cheap for the quality .999% ones! Any good vendors you know of?
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Bok
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Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:48 pm

Brent D wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:28 am
Thanks for the input folks!
I think I might get one someday. It would be a great way to test if a tea is as good as I think it is.
Not cheap for the quality .999% ones! Any good vendors you know of?
I have been using inherited antiques, never bought any. I do not know of any Western-facing vendor I can recommend. You mostly find it in the Antique shops here in Taiwan or Japan. There are a lot in premium Taobao shops, With a hefty price tag, so quality should be good. Somehow the English Taobao does not have as many things to browse.

This kind of pricey item I would only buy if i can hold and inspect it beforehand. Larger ones should be easy to find on Western fleamarkets.
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Bok
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Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:52 am

Found a picture of my silver kettle. Antique European from (?), also in the picture: Antique Chinese, or more likely Japanese plate, Chinese export porcelain cup and a Yixing teapot from Taiwan (no info on age, brews tea quite well though). The kettle seems to have been part of a whole wedding set of silver ware, stove is missing. But you can still see it must have been supposed to be fixed on a stove.
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Bok
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Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:58 am

A stove similar to this:


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TeaTotaling
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Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:19 pm

I reviewed all posts regarding silver kettles, and I was unable to find the clarification I was looking for. I figured I would get your expert take @Bok, seeing as you have one. I couldn't find @Brent D's review of his silver teapot from YS either.

I am familiar with silvers affect on water, although I have not experienced it personally. I am not interested in a teapot, but rather a kettle only. I like that it's the best conductor of heat amongst all metals. This could be very useful to boil water speedily, at a raging hot temperature, and then transferring it into my preheated Zisha Zini Kettle. I also like the idea of using silver as a stand alone kettle. I have an infrared plate, and while an antique Japanese Tetsubin sounds great, I have read it functions to it's true potential over charcoal. An antique Japanese Silver Kettle might be the better option for infrared.

@Bok do you use your beautiful Silver Kettle frequently? Also, do you find the water it produces, benefits darker teas, like Yancha or Puerh? I read Tetsubin's are a better match for darker teas, and Silver a better match for lighter teas. Again, no previous experience with either. I would be using a very mineral rich spring water.

Any, and all insight would be greatly appreciated :)
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mbanu
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Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:21 pm

steanze wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:47 pm
CWarren wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm
Not only do they retain heat very well but they also make everything brighter, (more pronounced). Even without a pot a simple silver cup can really make a tea shine, (pun intended).
Mm I am a bit surprised that you found silver to retain heat well, since it is the metal with highest thermal conductivity: https://van.physics.illinois.edu/qa/lis ... p?id=19091

How did you measure heat retention?
Polishing makes the difference; polished silver is very reflectant. I can't think of anyone who has done it, but I'd be interested to see the results from brewing tea in two teapots of the same size and shape, one polished and one tarnished.

As far as gongfu teapots, the silver ones are new, I think, because in certain Chinese brewing circles, using metal for tea was not considered sophisticated, as it shows a poor understanding of Chinese elemental theory, and more generally Yixing was supposed to be a reaction against the more luxurious pots made of fine porcelain or precious metals, so it was attacked from both ends as being both flashy and unsophisticated at the same time.
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steanze
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Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:42 pm

mbanu wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:21 pm

Polishing makes the difference; polished silver is very reflectant. I can't think of anyone who has done it, but I'd be interested to see the results from brewing tea in two teapots of the same size and shape, one polished and one tarnished.

As far as gongfu teapots, the silver ones are new, I think, because in certain Chinese brewing circles, using metal for tea was not considered sophisticated, as it shows a poor understanding of Chinese elemental theory, and more generally Yixing was supposed to be a reaction against the more luxurious pots made of fine porcelain or precious metals, so it was attacked from both ends as being both flashy and unsophisticated at the same time.

During Jiaqing period (1760-1820) there was a trend of making Yixing teapots that were lined with pewter - not just for the appeal of metal, but because pewter was easier to carve, allowing for flowing calligraphy and engravings. I am not so sure about the relevance of Chinese elemental theory, and about the view that Yixing was a reaction to more luxurious pots. I would be interested in reading more: what are the sources on which you are basing these claims?
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aet
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Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:04 am

TeaTotaling wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:19 pm
I am not interested in a teapot, but rather a kettle only.
what is your budged ?
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mbanu
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Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:08 am

I first heard about the elemental theory belief from the blog of Imperial Tea Court, Roy Fong's teahouse: http://blog.imperialtea.com/2009/10/bre ... ilver.html

John Blofeld briefly mentioned this in his 1985 book The Chinese Art of Tea:

"The preference of T'ang aristocrats for gold and silver tea-things was deplored by later generations of Tea Masters, who were in general opposed to more than a minimal use of metal tea accessories. However, exceptions were commonly made (though rarely for teapots) in the case of either non-corrosive or enamelled metals. Both silver or porcelain spoons for transferring the leaves from caddy to teapot were widely used. Kettles were often of bronze. (One can still buy inexpensive Tibetan bronze or copper kettles that resemble antique Chinese counterparts in New Delhi and Nepal, but these particular metals need to be kept in a permanent state of cleanliness, which is not always a simple matter if we bar the use of soap and detergents.)"

I would have to do a bit of digging to find a source for Yixing teapots as a reaction against porcelain, although Blofeld mentions this being a trend influenced by Chen Mansheng (陳曼生/陳鴻壽) a member of the literati with a government job in Yixing who started the trend of plain earthenware teapots carved with lines of poetry rather than being heavily decorated. I don't think this was the original, though.
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