Difference between these 2 water boilers?

precisiontea
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Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am

I am looking for a water boiler to precisely heat to 195 (it's already filtered water so quick heat works fine). Obviously I would want the water to only touch stainless steel or glass and never any plastic, whether it is BPA free or not.

1. The Zojirushi Hybrid Water Boiler- Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-586361 ... 0R4HKIV8/
This is the premium one out there -- but does it have features I won't use? Most pricy at $175.

2. Electric Kettle Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-1-7Lite ... 824SD6FT/
Can keep the temperature anywhere from 105-205 manually and it displays. It says BPA Free but I would prefer the water never touches plastic ever. Affordable at $40.

3. VAVA Electric Kettle Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-VAVA-St ... 7C3T57S2/
Does the job - will heat to 190 degrees, has great reviews and durability and is a great price at $40.


What am I missing here, what is making the Zojirushi so expensive for someone who just wants it heated for tea?
Last edited by precisiontea on Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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pedant
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Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:24 am

welcome to the forum! :mrgreen:
precisiontea wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am
I am looking for a water boiler to precisely heat to 195 (it's already filtered water so quick heat works fine). Obviously I would want the water to only touch stainless steel or glass and never any plastic
if you only care about one temperature (close to boiling), then just get a super basic stainless electric kettle imo. a cheap one! no need for temperature control. you did not explain your need for 195°, but if it does not need to be exactly 195°, just turn it off a bit before it finishes boiling all the way. or relax for a few minutes after it boils so it cools down a little before you use it.

however, if you drink a lot of different kinds of tea, then it's helpful to have a variable temperature kettle. for example, a lot of japanese green teas are hard to brew without excessive bitterness if you don't use cooler water (somewhere around 170°F).
precisiontea wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am
What am I missing here, what is making the Zojirushi so expensive for someone who just wants it heated for tea?
that thing's not a kettle. it's a hot water dispenser that keeps your water hot all day for you. it's insulated and stuff. also, it's a high end japanese brand.
water dispensers are convenient if you only care about one water temperature. the hot water is always ready to go. no waiting.
precisiontea
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Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:06 am

pedant wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:24 am
welcome to the forum! :mrgreen:
precisiontea wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am
I am looking for a water boiler to precisely heat to 195 (it's already filtered water so quick heat works fine). Obviously I would want the water to only touch stainless steel or glass and never any plastic
if you only care about one temperature (close to boiling), then just get a super basic stainless electric kettle imo. a cheap one! no need for temperature control. you did not explain your need for 195°, but if it does not need to be exactly 195°, just turn it off a bit before it finishes boiling all the way. or relax for a few minutes after it boils so it cools down a little before you use it.

however, if you drink a lot of different kinds of tea, then it's helpful to have a variable temperature kettle. for example, a lot of japanese green teas are hard to brew without excessive bitterness if you don't use cooler water (somewhere around 170°F).
precisiontea wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am
What am I missing here, what is making the Zojirushi so expensive for someone who just wants it heated for tea?
that thing's not a kettle. it's a hot water dispenser that keeps your water hot all day for you. it's insulated and stuff. also, it's a high end japanese brand.
water dispensers are convenient if you only care about one water temperature. the hot water is always ready to go. no waiting.
Thank you pedant. I updated the post for the links to be clickable, but I guess the zojirushi is something that's more for various kinds of tea. I don't drink caffeinated tea and the ones I do get are recommended to be steeped at the 195 temperature (they tend to be herbal or have very little caffeine such as gaba, purhh). I'd also like something I can travel with.
Vanenbw
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:39 pm

I'm not sure if you made a decision on a kettle yet, but you want want to check out this variable temperature kettle. It's reminiscent of the popular Stagg model, but less expensive: https://www.amazon.com/COSORI-Electric- ... op?ie=UTF8
faj
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Vanenbw wrote:
Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:39 pm
I'm not sure if you made a decision on a kettle yet, but you want want to check out this variable temperature kettle.
If I understand the listing correctly, this kettle is not adjustable to the degree, it only works with presets. Its minimum temperature is also somewhat high for some teas. If you want to get a temperature in between or below the presets, you would need to allow time for the water to cool down or transfer if between vessels to do it quicker.

This is just a matter of preference and convenience, as many people do entirely without a variable temperature kettle, adjusting their technique to reach the desired result. For instance, some people swear by the use of tetsubin or clay kettles to improve the taste of water.

I otherwise do not have experience with this product, so I cannot recommend for or against.
Vanenbw
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Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:55 pm

You are correct. I noticed that as well, and figured that was one reason it was not in the price range of models that operate similarly. I haven't purchased the device, but I did consider this as a potential downside of the kettle. However, for the price it's not bad. Like you said, you can always let the temperature cool before pouring if it's too hot. I like to warm the tea pot and/or teacups anyway, so I probably would not want the exact preset setting. If I was doing green tea, I might choose oolong and adjust the temperature on my own. It's understandable if you want a unit with these features, you probably want something with more flexibility with the temperature settings.
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Youzi
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:34 am

precisiontea wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:30 am
I am looking for a water boiler to precisely heat to 195 (it's already filtered water so quick heat works fine). Obviously I would want the water to only touch stainless steel or glass and never any plastic, whether it is BPA free or not.

1. The Zojirushi Hybrid Water Boiler- Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Zojirushi-586361 ... 0R4HKIV8/
This is the premium one out there -- but does it have features I won't use? Most pricy at $175.

2. Electric Kettle Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-1-7Lite ... 824SD6FT/
Can keep the temperature anywhere from 105-205 manually and it displays. It says BPA Free but I would prefer the water never touches plastic ever. Affordable at $40.

3. VAVA Electric Kettle Stainless Steel:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-VAVA-St ... 7C3T57S2/
Does the job - will heat to 190 degrees, has great reviews and durability and is a great price at $40.


What am I missing here, what is making the Zojirushi so expensive for someone who just wants it heated for tea?
Just buy this one:
Almost the best all around, not much compromise:

https://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-BV3825 ... th=1&psc=1
Vanenbw
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:52 pm

I had considered the Bonavita for myself, but I was a little turned off by the first couple of pages of underwhelming reviews on Amazon.com.
Last edited by Vanenbw on Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
faj
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:54 pm

Vanenbw wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:52 pm
I had considered the Bonavita for myself, but I was a little turned off by the first couple of pages of underwhelming reviewed on Amazon.com.
Overall, the reviews seem quite positive. There may seem to be a lot of bad reviews, but that product has been reviewed more than 2000 times... I am not sure other products with similar features would fare much better.

It is the kettle I use at home. I have been using it for more than two years now, heating water several times a day, every day. I have not experienced issues with mine for now.
Vanenbw
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:36 pm

That's good to know, because I thought the price was right compared to the Stagg. I'm not in the market for a kettle yet, but I am interested in the gooseneck kettles that are able to hold the temperature for up to an hour. But in the end, my simple kettle does what it has to do, and I have been using it for over ten years, so there is no reason to upgrade yet. But when the time comes, I'll definitely consider one of these gooseneck kettles.
faj
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:41 pm

Vanenbw wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:36 pm
But in the end, my simple kettle does what it has to do, and I have been using it for over ten years, so there is no reason to upgrade yet.
A variable temperature kettle is a convenience only. You do not need one to make good tea, as long as you develop your way to have your water at a temperature that matches your intent for the tea you are brewing.
Vanenbw
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:16 pm

I agree. If you’re an avid drinker of tea, I can see wanting to invest in one at some point. I have a system down already using my kettle, and cooling the water by pouring into my yuzamashi and tea cups.
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debunix
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Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:51 pm

This was my review on the Bonavita:

I love the overall design--easy to use. The preset temps are good starting points and make it easier to run through a series of hotter infusions during a green tea session (where I start with cooler water and infuse multiple times with hotter water each time).

Update Feb 2018

Quality control and longevity are the reasons why it is a 3 instead of a 4 or 5 star review.

I checked my purchase history and I've bought three Bonavita 1L gooseneck variable temp kettles (BV382510V), in 2013, 2015, and 2017.

The 2013 pot developed a fault where it stopped heating entirely in 2017, after almost 4 years of daily use, before and after work on most weekdays, and for 3-5 individual teas on weekends. Each session may involve touching the keypads at least once for heating water for 3-8 infusion per tea, and with the green teas, resetting temp with nearly every infusion--a lot of use.

The 2015 pot is in a satellite office where I prepare 2-4 teas/day a few days a month--not such heavy use. Out of the box it has the ‘hi-err’ problem which is well documented here. I could worked around that, so I didn’t replace it right away, but I see now there is a manufacturer replacement program that may deal with that.

But this week I’m starting to see a different glitch in my 2017 pot, one that gets 2-4 sessions/day heavy use—seems like it is having trouble recognizing that the pot is connected to the base. I can’t see any buildup of debris around the connections between base and pot, so again I’m thinking maybe fault with the electrics developing.

One pot glitching after less than 4 years, one almost out of the box, and one more after just under a year, from 3 purchased, seems a bit much.
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Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:53 am

debunix raises a ?, "What is a reasonable amount of time for an appliance to work properly?"

If one gets good use from an $80 purchase for 4 years, great! There are many electric appliances that cost more $ & break down much quicker. It's a shame that loyalty to the brand was not rewarded.

I have been very lucky. The bonavita that I purchased when the variable temperature kettles first came out, is still working well. Does that mean that I should keep recommending it?

Many companies make changes. They may not plan to alter their product when they change manufacturers; yet, the possibility of cheaper production will result in a less reliable product is there. Bonavita's kettles now are not made by the same manufacturers that produced the original variable temperature electric kettles. What is for sale now may look & act as mine does, but it sounds as if one cannot expect the kettle to last long enough.

At least the facts are clear about a pot working or not working. With tea is more subjective. The last production of my favorite black tea (Championship Black) had a characteristic that bothered me, an edge to it or what may simply be called a tiny touch of harshness or bitterness. This last period of purchasing I chose 2 new black teas that are not as complex & if not over-steeped, have absolutely no bitterness or nasty edge. Next year, I get to choose again.

If someone is going to steep all of his tea at 195F, making a decision on a kettle should not be too difficult. It is not a decision that will rule one's whole life. I could see myself bringing water to a full boil, doing 15 push-ups then using the water (or some other routine that takes the time for 212 to come down to 195).

Happy New Year
Vanenbw
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Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:15 am

I always get the warm and fuzzies when I purchase an item that lasts for many years. I feel that I am getting my money's worth, and I will likely be loyal to the brand if they continue producing reliable products. It's not for tea, but my Vitamix blender, which I purchased around 10 years ago is still going strong. I use it every day, blending frozen fruit and veggies, and occasionally nuts and seeds. It's a workhorse. I'm not suggesting a well-made product should work, unimpeded, for 10+ years with no issues. All products are different, but I don't think you should have to purchase the same product three times in a seven year period either. I use my kettle every day. I boil a cup of water for tea in the morning, and lately (since I have learned the proper way to brew sencha), I use it to boil up a at least three infusions in the evening. And I boil water for a few cups each daya on the weekend and days I work from home. True, it's not as convenient as the programmable kettles. It's very basic, but it works. And I've been using it for over 10 years as well. I would, however, consider a Bonavita, or one of the other programmable kettles when it's time to buy another kettle, or if I decided to buy a second one to keep in another room for the sake of convenience.

I guess if I had to put some time frame on it, I would say a good appliance, with daily use, should last for at least 5 years. It would be nice if you can get more years out of it, but having to replace a kettle after 5 years of use seems reasonable. Still, it's nice if it keeps chugging along for as long as you want to continue using it, but it's reasonable to accept that at some point it's going to stop working. After 5 years, I don't think I would would be too ticked off if my kettle broke down.

If you are wondering which kettle I'm using, that has lasted for over 10 years so far, it's Chef'sChoice - https://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/ ... lsrc=aw.ds.
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