pot ID help?

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wave_code
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Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:30 pm

My curiosity got the better of me so I picked this up recently. I couldn't stop staring at it and while I even initially disliked the knob on the top it grew on me as it started looking like a minaret, or a tulip or garlic bulb- so at this point then compulsion had clearly kicked in and I had to buy it even if it wound up being junk. For now it is named 'Onion Head'. What the pot actually is though is a mystery, maybe someone here can help shed some light on it?

Full disclosure I don't know that this pot is even Japanese, but its the hunch I'm going on for several reasons. It has no markings anywhere on the pot to help direct any of this unfortunately. But its stylized enough that I thought maybe someone might recognize the overall feel of it - maybe it was considered a second, or maybe is something made by a student? But for all I know it could also be from somewhere else. The orange-ish clay looked like it could have been modern Chaozhou and while its clearly hand thrown, CZ didn't make sense for many other reasons- to start at about 180ml it would be pretty big for a CZ pot, and probably also quite expensive being unblended modern CZ (and maybe not the right shade of red/orange) and didn't seem to make sense stylistically. I figure Japanese made in a Chinese influenced style is at least more likely - I feel like I've seen photos of some shudei that looks quite orange, and that this kind of rough dragged outside texture has been done by quite a few artists, but my knowledge in this area is very limited. Also the lid style of it sitting on a lip and having an air hole in the lid rather than the button leads me to think its Japanese. I'm afraid the color is actually quite difficult to capture.

Some parts of the workmanship seem significantly better than others, or rather others were intentionally left kind of rough - for example the spout is off-axis to the right, pot lid underside it kinda roughly done, fingernail mark inside the pot, underside of the spout, some cracking at the top of the handle... in contrast though its actually thrown quite thin, in comparison to anything else I own at least, especially at the bottom where the texturing isn't present, also the lip/top of the pot is very cleanly done. 9 hole filter in the body, clay feels very delicate and seems pretty porous. Gives a quiet fizz when hot water is poured in. Unfortunately its got a lot of that awful storage/thrift store type smell stuck in it so I'll have to do some delicate cleaning and airing out before testing out the clay itself- pours nice and fast though. Does the style look familiar to anyone? Am I way off base here?
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Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:31 pm

some photos
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Bok
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Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:55 pm

Seems Japanese to me as well.
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Victoria
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Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:09 pm

Bok wrote:
Sat Apr 24, 2021 8:55 pm
Seems Japanese to me as well.
Hmm, looks like a South East Asian interpretation maybe Vietnam or Thailand ... could also be a European ceramicist. Did you find in a shop or online? After you clean let us know how it steeps water and tea.
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Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:56 am

got it from a UK ebay seller. given what else they had I'm guessing this was an Oxfam or flea market find they were re-selling. the pot seemed like it was barely or maybe totally unused, so now its just getting rid of the cursed smell.

I hadn't considered Vietnam or Thailand actually - I know nothing about pots from there aside from the big more polished/angular pots that were popular and I guess were originally export from China, but nothing contemporary. I had also thought maybe it could be Yingge, but I don't really know anything that uses raw clay expect for the mass produced slip-cast pots, so that also didn't seem to fit style wise so much, also maybe too orange for Yingge, @Bok?

The sort of roughy Ju Lun-inspired shape combined with the lid lip is also what made me think Japanese. Also seemed fitting stylistically to say go to the effort of actually throwing a thinner pot and having some of the construction being quite well done, well also not being so bothered by certain rougher or more humanizing aspects of the pots construction that might otherwise have it be considered 'flawed' like having a finger print on the lid. Then again I could be assigning a lot here. Not really his style at all but someone like Bero did come to mind too with his mixing of of various styles and shapes from all over and how this could be from a European potter in the same way. I've just never seen someone here using such an orange clay, usually its more stoneware or these very rough clays with lots of minerals - this isn't so sandy and is very uniform.
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Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:19 am

@wave_code don’t think it’s Yingge either, but there are so many things coming out of there these days...

The way the lid sits on the body with that collar really makes me think Japanese. Don’t know enough about Thai or Vietnamese or other places pottery to make a guess...
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wave_code
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Thu May 13, 2021 10:52 am

after quite a bit of cleaning I think I may have finally gotten thing thing back to neutral and can test out and see how the clay really is. when you look around at so many pots you start to see elements where you think it could be influenced by one artist or another until you are left back at : I have no clue :D

of course this could just be some cheaply produced souvenir from anywhere too, though why bother throwing something with such thin walls and so much stylizing rather than just using a mold?

I stumbled across what I had hoped might be a clue from another auction, but the pot is also totally unmarked. the clay and spot and roughness look almost identical though- https://www.ebay.de/itm/254745630903

I doubt either of these are from then... but it has also been an interesting learning experience looking around at lots of different pots and artists' work and it seems like both of these shapes were quite popular during the Meiji period, though usually then made in Seto porcelain.
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Victoria
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Thu May 13, 2021 2:54 pm

wave_code wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:52 am
I doubt either of these are from then... but it has also been an interesting learning experience looking around at lots of different pots and artists' work and it seems like both of these shapes were quite popular during the Meiji period, though usually then made in Seto porcelain.
I have learned quite a lot over the years about periods, styles, kilns, artisans just by slowly looking around when trying to identify a maker of teaware purchased at auctions. I really think this slow approach has been the best as it has also broadened my knowledge. @wave_code, can you share the Meiji period pieces you are referring to? Hope you enjoy using your now cleaned up pot.
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Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 am

thanks @Victoria, now the question is what to season it and try it out with first...

its a fun learning process, and a lot of Japanese work both modern and vintage seems much more accessible in terms of English info/western market which is nice. Yixing I find really appealing and interesting too in its own way, but for us it feels much more of a 'is this real of fake??' kind of market. Though I'm sure there is plenty of that with Japanese ceramics too, especially once you get into vintage things and areas like recreation of early Chinese influenced design though.

I wasn't looking at any specific pots really, but after looking at a few different artists who have used similar techniques I found, like Shuzo, I just started searching a few different random things, eventually being 'meiji teapot'. Assuming even half those images/listings that come up are accurate it looks like there were a lot of pots made in the large overhead handle/dobin sort of shape, and also a lot of rear handle pots with longer spouts, usually highly decorated porcelain/satsuma ware. I feel I shouldn't speculate too much since this whole area of history is unfamiliar to me, but it seems no surprise to me in a way that things produced during that imperial period also seem to reflect that in their appearance; a lot of these pots look like they would also have been just as fitting to have been used by some late European kaiser or Hapsburg family or something. So, not to my taste at all but historically interesting I guess haha.
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