Shudei vs Zhuni - or the case of the elusive two Zhuni

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Victoria
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Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:39 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:19 pm
In the next step I might extend the comparisons to Chaozhou clay, visually it looks very similar and I have a pot in the right size :mrgreen:

Victoria funny you mention Shudei as turning the tea harsher, which was my impression of the Zhuni. I suspect that the underlying issue is the tea. The clay will put the faults in the forefront, in harsh daylight. Zhuni and porcelain more so than more absorbing clays.

Heat could also be the issue, so shorter steeps might help, still in the end, if the tea is good enough it can take the heat. Premium high mountain is almost indestructible by neglectful brewing.
Well, only this Emu shudei kyusu paired with this particular LiShan resulted in a harsher brew. At first I thought it was the Icelandic water I was using, or my body, so decided to try Shimizu Ken’s Nosaka kyusu. Since these were back-to-back overlapping tastings the differences were clear. I’ve used this Emu kyusu with other high mountain, but I seem to be using it more often with sencha in general. I wasn’t conscious why until today.

I have another Emu shudei that I’ve used with LiShan often with good results, but haven’t done an intentional comparison with other kyusu yet, lol.
DailyTX
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:09 pm

Happy New Year to everyone on teaforum!
I have been looking into Japanese teapots, and I am interested in Shudei clay pots. Anyone has recommendations on reputable online sellers or sellers based in United States? Thanks
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Victoria
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:55 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:09 pm
Happy New Year to everyone on teaforum!
I have been looking into Japanese teapots, and I am interested in Shudei clay pots. Anyone has recommendations on reputable online sellers or sellers based in United States? Thanks
Can’t recommend anyone in USA for shudei kyusu, unless it’s in our teaswap area. My favorite shudei kyusu at the moment are by Sou Yamada and his father Jozan IV. Asako Isobe in Tokoname represents them. You can contact her via Facebook messenger. Her boutique web site isobe.shop-pro.jp is limited, although she has a much larger store as well in Tokoname. Since her web site shows only a few pieces, let her know what you are looking for and that TeaForum and I sent you :) 🍃

Artistic Nippon also sells many very special shudei kyusu by Gafu, Fugetsu, Jinshu, and Sou Yamada.
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Baisao
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:15 pm

In addition to Victoria’s suggestions, I like Taisuke Shiraiwa’s shudei teapots from Hokkaido. He is apprenticing under Yohei Konishi, a well regarded potter in Tokoname, and his clays have a resemblance in character to mumyoi clay of Sado Island.

Taisuke mines his own clay, hand built his kiln, and even chops wood for his kiln. He is dedicated to the essential essence of every aspect of making teaware.

His prices are reasonable and I expect good things for him. Best of all, his shudei works great with tea if you like clays that give a smooth texture to tea.

You can contract him directly on Instagram. He uses Google Translate to convert English to Japanese so all transactions have been communicated clearly.

https://instagram.com/taisukeshiraiwa?i ... 2vqhhhxk05

This isn’t my favorite pot of his to use (I prefer a large pot of his) but you can see the beauty of his clay in this photo.
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DailyTX
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Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:17 pm

@Victoria& @Baisao

Thank you for the recommendations. Will keep an eye out at the tea swap section as well looking into more current artist :)
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Bok
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Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:23 am

@Baisaothat texture is quite something!
DailyTX
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Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 pm

Victoria wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:55 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:09 pm
Happy New Year to everyone on teaforum!
I have been looking into Japanese teapots, and I am interested in Shudei clay pots. Anyone has recommendations on reputable online sellers or sellers based in United States? Thanks
Can’t recommend anyone in USA for shudei kyusu, unless it’s in our teaswap area. My favorite shudei kyusu at the moment are by Sou Yamada and his father Jozan IV. Asako Isobe in Tokoname represents them. You can contact her via Facebook messenger. Her boutique web site isobe.shop-pro.jp is limited, although she has a much larger store as well in Tokoname. Since her web site shows only a few pieces, let her know what you are looking for and that TeaForum and I sent you :) 🍃

Artistic Nippon also sells many very special shudei kyusu by Gafu, Fugetsu, Jinshu, and Sou Yamada.
@Victoria
I looked through some threads about Jozan pots from different generations, it seems you have have a good collection. I wonder if you care to share your thoughts on clay comparison between Jozan IV and pots from Sou? Thanks :)
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Victoria
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Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 pm
Victoria
I looked through some threads about Jozan pots from different generations, it seems you have have a good collection. I wonder if you care to share your thoughts on clay comparison between Jozan IV and pots from Sou? Thanks :)
I will take a few pictures of the kyusu together for you later. My two Emu shudei are more textured, one with kaolin chips, the Sou shudei has a subtly darker smoother tone, the Emu slightly more orange. One Emu does better with high mountain than the other. The side handle Sou and the back handle Emu both do well with Japanese greens and high mountain oolong.
DailyTX
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Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:18 pm

Victoria wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 pm
Victoria
I looked through some threads about Jozan pots from different generations, it seems you have have a good collection. I wonder if you care to share your thoughts on clay comparison between Jozan IV and pots from Sou? Thanks :)
I will take a few pictures of the kyusu together for you later. My two Emu shudei are more textured, one with kaolin chips, the Sou shudei has a subtly darker smoother tone, the Emu slightly more orange. One Emu does better with high mountain than the other. The side handle Sou and the back handle Emu both do well with Japanese greens and high mountain oolong.
Awesome! I like the sound of orange color tone rather than red. I think my main priority is the clay purity hoping to find in Jozan IV’s pots. As for Sou’s pots, they seem very promising. Given Sou’s age and maybe I haven’t seen enough of his pots, I am still looking for a pot that represent who he is as a potter rather than mastering the craftsmanship of his father and grandfather. Excited to see those photos :)
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Victoria
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:35 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:18 pm
Victoria wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 pm
Victoria
I looked through some threads about Jozan pots from different generations, it seems you have have a good collection. I wonder if you care to share your thoughts on clay comparison between Jozan IV and pots from Sou? Thanks :)
I will take a few pictures of the kyusu together for you later. My two Emu shudei are more textured, one with kaolin chips, the Sou shudei has a subtly darker smoother tone, the Emu slightly more orange. One Emu does better with high mountain than the other. The side handle Sou and the back handle Emu both do well with Japanese greens and high mountain oolong.
Awesome! I like the sound of orange color tone rather than red. I think my main priority is the clay purity hoping to find in Jozan IV’s pots. As for Sou’s pots, they seem very promising. Given Sou’s age and maybe I haven’t seen enough of his pots, I am still looking for a pot that represent who he is as a potter rather than mastering the craftsmanship of his father and grandfather. Excited to see those photos :)
The differences in tone are subtle. Both Emu are pear skin having more texture. Porosity is similar between shudei Sou and Emu kyusu I have. Jozan III is denser and less porous. Jozan IV commands higher prices >600$, Sou starting at +-150$, Jozan III >800$ if hand signed (vs stamped). They all pour perfectly and are a pleasure to use. Was difficult to get the right lighting to really show off the texture variations. @phyllsheng captures Emu texture beautifully in this photo.

From Upper Right Clockwise; Yamada Sou, Emu (Jozan IV), Jozan III, Emu (Jozan IV)

DSC0341_Yamada Sou Emu Jozan III crp.jpg
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DailyTX
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm

Victoria wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:35 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:18 pm
Victoria wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:05 pm

I will take a few pictures of the kyusu together for you later. My two Emu shudei are more textured, one with kaolin chips, the Sou shudei has a subtly darker smoother tone, the Emu slightly more orange. One Emu does better with high mountain than the other. The side handle Sou and the back handle Emu both do well with Japanese greens and high mountain oolong.
Awesome! I like the sound of orange color tone rather than red. I think my main priority is the clay purity hoping to find in Jozan IV’s pots. As for Sou’s pots, they seem very promising. Given Sou’s age and maybe I haven’t seen enough of his pots, I am still looking for a pot that represent who he is as a potter rather than mastering the craftsmanship of his father and grandfather. Excited to see those photos :)
The differences in tone are subtle. Both Emu are pear skin having more texture. Porosity is similar between shudei Sou and Emu kyusu I have. Jozan III is denser and less porous. Jozan IV commands higher prices >600$, Sou starting at +-150$, Jozan III >800$ if hand signed (vs stamped). They all pour perfectly and are a pleasure to use. Was difficult to get the right lighting to really show off the texture variations. phyllsheng captures Emu texture beautifully in this photo.

From Upper Right Clockwise; Yamada Sou, Emu (Jozan IV), Jozan III, Emu (Jozan IV)


Image

Image
@Victoria
Thank you for taking effort to post those pictures. It seems out of those 4 pots, the bottom left one has the most smooth texture, which is from Jozan lll. The other three pots have similar texture that seems to be minerals from the clay? Just curious, do you know any wrinkles on Jozan lll’s pot? I wonder what’s the shrinkage on Jozan lll’s pot
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Victoria
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:09 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm
Victoria
Thank you for taking effort to post those pictures. It seems out of those 4 pots, the bottom left one has the most smooth texture, which is from Jozan lll. The other three pots have similar texture that seems to be minerals from the clay? Just curious, do you know any wrinkles on Jozan lll’s pot? I wonder what’s the shrinkage on Jozan lll’s pot
The texture in pear skin kyusu is from mineral additives like kaolin, quartz etc to the clay. By the ’wrinkles’ on Jozan III kyusu, do you mean the concentric circle wheel marks made with an implement as bowl is being spun?
DailyTX
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:02 pm

Victoria wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:09 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:58 pm
Victoria
Thank you for taking effort to post those pictures. It seems out of those 4 pots, the bottom left one has the most smooth texture, which is from Jozan lll. The other three pots have similar texture that seems to be minerals from the clay? Just curious, do you know any wrinkles on Jozan lll’s pot? I wonder what’s the shrinkage on Jozan lll’s pot
The texture in pear skin kyusu is from mineral additives like kaolin, quartz etc to the clay. By the ’wrinkles’ on Jozan III kyusu, do you mean the concentric circle wheel marks made with an implement as bowl is being spun?
Haha wrinkles is probably a yixing term. I am curious about shrinkage of the kyusu before fired and after fired. High shrinkage ratio clay in Yixing Zisha would make a pattern like distress leather after fired.
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Baisao
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:50 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:02 pm
Haha wrinkles is probably a yixing term. I am curious about shrinkage of the kyusu before fired and after fired. High shrinkage ratio clay in Yixing Zisha would make a pattern like distress leather after fired.
I’ve never noticed zhuni-like wrinkles on their shudei or any shudei. To me, shudei reminds me of 60s and early 70s F1 hongni in the most essential sense. Shudei may have kaolin, quartz, etc. added to it of course but the clay is nevertheless more like hongni than zhuni.
DailyTX
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Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:16 pm

Baisao wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:50 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:02 pm
Haha wrinkles is probably a yixing term. I am curious about shrinkage of the kyusu before fired and after fired. High shrinkage ratio clay in Yixing Zisha would make a pattern like distress leather after fired.
I’ve never noticed zhuni-like wrinkles on their shudei or any shudei. To me, shudei reminds me of 60s and early 70s F1 hongni in the most essential sense. Shudei may have kaolin, quartz, etc. added to it of course but the clay is nevertheless more like hongni than zhuni.
@Baisao
Great, now I have some idea on what to expect.
@Victoria
Jozan lll pots can be purchased under $1000 usd?
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