modern Tokoname and mass production

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wave_code
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 10:55 am

While I still haven't picked one up yet, I've been keen to try Tokoname clay for a bit now, and have been looking in to it more. @Baisao was kindly offering me some advice recently on some Tokoname pots I was looking at, and it sent me off to do more research and looking around as my knowledge of Japanese ceramics is very low. I stumbled across this article from Thés Du Japon which was quite interesting on kyusu production and the market- always nice to get real facts on the situations and realities faced by crafts workers: https://japaneseteasommelier.wordpress. ... t-potters/

While the unfortunate economic realities many artists are going up against here seem almost sadly universal in any area of craft, the thing that struck me particularly was about how many modern inexpensive "Tokoname" pots can come from China. In some ways I'm not or shouldn't be surprised I guess. I don't know if similar processes exist in Japan for other clays but I do know for example there are different types of molding processes that can be used for Banko, like a semi-mechanical version of how molds are used for Yixing. But of course I just ignorantly assumed red clay kyusu most likely = Tokoname, or at least Japanese made whether by hand, molded, or by some sort of injection/clay slip process. I know I've seen plenty of cheap kyusu that have seam lines on them like a cheap 'yixing' does. Does anyone know more about any of the details of this? I'm guessing, though maybe I'm wrong, that there isn't any bothering of shipping clay over and that what is being produced in China is just some blend of smoother looking vermillion colored clay and that these pots have zero to do with Tokoname and are just being sold falsely as such or unspecified just assumed by an ignorant buyer to be so based on appearance. Whether produced in China or Japan outside of specialty craftsmanship there are plenty of inexpensive mass production pots on the market. Some seem to have a much more plastic look to them than others which I'm guessing is either a result of a molding process and/or the clay's blend or some sort of very thin clear glazing. I'm wondering if this is one way of identifying such pots, or is it also not so uncommon for even Japanese produced pots to either be made of this kind of clay blend or have some sort of thin clear glazing coat?
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pedant
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:20 pm

as usual, good article by Florent at TdJ.

i guess i knew most of that stuff, but it still kind of bummed me out reading it. lol

one thing i did not know:
https://japaneseteasommelier.wordpress.com/2021/07/09/about-two-types-of-japanese-kyusu-specialist-potters wrote: in Yokkaichi (banko-yaki), we clearly observe that some catalog shokunin (things are less clear here however, because almost no more wholesalers, almost no more potters either) even quite famous produce things rather mediocre (in comparison with equivalent prices to Tokoname) while their early works were really much better. In short, they have chosen to limit the increase in prices by lowering the quality. A choice that can be criticized, especially when you see the result and the current situation (moreover, there are a number of facts that tipped the scales in Tokoname’s side, both qualitatively and quantitatively, but this is not my point today).
i've never owned a banko kyusu. i've almost bought banko pots a few times but in the end didn't because i didn't like them enough. usually what stopped me was small details about the craftsmanship. on the other hand, i've seen pictures of banko kyusu online that i like a lot, but i've never stumbled upon such pieces for sale. Florent gives an explanation that makes sense. i guess i should be looking for older banko pieces.

but back on topic.. i think your guesses are right. and i personally don't see the point of buying orange slipcast "tokoname kyusu" from china or other places.
DailyTX
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 pm

I have been interested in Tokoname pots for a while, and I finally adopted one from another member early this year. This wood fired Tokoname Kyusu has been used for green tea, and I quite like it. I am curious if anyone can post some photos of the slip casted Tokoname pots? I can recognize slip casted Yixing, I am not sure if it’s the same production method. Thanks
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Baisao
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:59 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:10 pm
I have been interested in Tokoname pots for a while, and I finally adopted one from another member early this year. This wood fired Tokoname Kyusu has been used for green tea, and I quite like it. I am curious if anyone can post some photos of the slip casted Tokoname pots? I can recognize slip casted Yixing, I am not sure if it’s the same production method. Thanks
I cannot tell from a photo alone but these two kyusu are low end, molded (either slip cast or press molded), and have a tacky vermilion glaze applied to them. I would not at all be surprised if they were made in China from mystery clay. I’ve held kyusu like this at markets and I can see overspray of the vermilion glaze in parts like inside the handle. They also tend to be too light for their size.
Painted 1
Painted 1
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Painted 2
Painted 2
74021B25-7262-492B-8592-A738AC7EA406.jpeg (392.18 KiB) Viewed 4667 times

This is not the same as the plastic looking shudei (perhaps it has another name) that is sometimes seen on Tokoname-yaki.
Plastic-looking but real
Plastic-looking but real
E35385B9-59EE-4993-BB4F-337696C8CEA3.jpeg (361.84 KiB) Viewed 4667 times
Or shudei that has been burnished or had a thin, clear glaze applied to it.


Burnished or glazed
Burnished or glazed
97199D8B-163B-4245-AA2A-B1F89215FE3B.jpeg (476.91 KiB) Viewed 4667 times
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Baisao
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:16 pm

@wave_code, I used to be involved with bonsai and have handled or purchased hundreds of Yixing and Tokoname bonsai pots.

My experience was that the Yixing pots were press molded from a dense clay and that it varied for Tokoname pots. Most smaller Tokoname pots were press molded, some were turned, but a surprising number were slip cast. Yixing bonsai pots were junky and used garish colors (clays & glazes); Tokoname bonsai pots were often sprayed to give shadows to accents. Higher end Tokoname bonsai pots, if glazed, used tasteful colors.

We especially valued older Tokoname bonsai pots because they were thrown or press molded from a richer brown clay than what has been used since the mid-90s. I never saw any vintage Yixing.

While there were clear differences between what was sold as Tokoname or Yixing, I believe it’s possible some “Tokoname” pots could’ve been made in China or elsewhere.

Also, the clays used for bonsai pots from both places would not be familiar to any of us teapot enthusiasts.
DailyTX
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Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:28 pm

Thanks @Baisao
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wave_code
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Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:56 am

Thanks for the examples and info @Baisao! I was reading a bit about the molding process for some Tokoname bonsai pots the other night and the article was saying how the main clay factory in Tokoname has various base clays and can then do custom mixes to order for potters, so a lot of the clay often is not actually coming from Tokoname, or at least the part of it we expect. Am I correct in the understanding that the signature orange/red clay we think of as THE Tokoname clay- this does come from the region, from lower levels of rice paddy earth. The rest I guess is mixed- I feel like when I look on Tokoname pot vendor websites I see both a mix of the classic expected red as well as a lot of blacks that are I'm guessing is reduction firing, but also other more generic grey/stoneware looking pots too that I guess are different clay mixes then.

From what I can gather a lot of the clay used in Banko ware is also not from the immediate region either. I guess this would make sense given the population and urban density in Japan- places accessible for modern clay mining are probably not likely to be directly in an urban production area. Rare exception perhaps being things like Joaka clay which surfaced due to airport construction but that is far from industrial in scale.


@pedant I'm really intrigued by Banko, maybe better to discuss in the other thread, but I can see what you mean. I've also found when looking around more often there are older pots that are more appealing and interesting to me, but finding them for sale is another matter. Between the focus on maintaining affordability and the fact that it seems like there are only three or four major potters still active (Taisen, Jitsuzan, and Masaki...) if you don't really like their current direction or work you are kinda out of luck. Apparently the signature high iron purple clay wasn't really developed until some point in the 1900s if I understand correctly, which is why you still see so much white banko since a lot of it was made more for elaborate and painted wares. I feel like Banko maybe sits in a similar place to where Nixing does to Yixing- where you have what can be a very good, different but still good, type of clay, but the craftsmanship around its use in teapot making isn't as developed and long standing, resulting in mostly mass production or just decent quality work being made, so the reputation never really increases, so neither does the craftsmanship, and it sort of gets stuck in a loop where more could be done at a higher quality and producing its own unique signature forms, but it never really quite gets there.
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Baisao
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Tue Dec 07, 2021 11:09 am

wave_code wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 3:56 am
Thanks for the examples and info Baisao! I was reading a bit about the molding process for some Tokoname bonsai pots the other night and the article was saying how the main clay factory in Tokoname has various base clays and can then do custom mixes to order for potters, so a lot of the clay often is not actually coming from Tokoname, or at least the part of it we expect. Am I correct in the understanding that the signature orange/red clay we think of as THE Tokoname clay- this does come from the region, from lower levels of rice paddy earth. The rest I guess is mixed- I feel like when I look on Tokoname pot vendor websites I see both a mix of the classic expected red as well as a lot of blacks that are I'm guessing is reduction firing, but also other more generic grey/stoneware looking pots too that I guess are different clay mixes then.

From what I can gather a lot of the clay used in Banko ware is also not from the immediate region either. I guess this would make sense given the population and urban density in Japan- places accessible for modern clay mining are probably not likely to be directly in an urban production area. Rare exception perhaps being things like Joaka clay which surfaced due to airport construction but that is far from industrial in scale.
Ideally, shudei should be local clay but this red, iron-rich clay exists elsewhere. Taisuke Shiraiwa has lovely vermillion pots from Hokkaido (though not many) and there are many vermillion pots from Sado Island, just to name two.

https://instagram.com/taisukeshiraiwa_t ... =copy_link
Taisuke Shiraiwa
Taisuke Shiraiwa
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And this is a pot from Sado Island:
Sado Island
Sado Island
mumyoi_photo08.jpg (50.33 KiB) Viewed 4593 times

Also, I think you are correct that the dark Tokoname pots are either reduction fired, a different clay, clay that is from elsewhere, or blended with iron. You would have to ask each artist.

I am uncertain if the shudei deposits in Tokoname were exhausted but has it was said that Jozan Yamada III collected enough shudei to last his family for generations. If true, it suggests that the deposits were becoming scarce. Additionally, the shudei used recently by Jozan IV and Emu does not resemble the shudei used by Jozan II and III. Perhaps they are simply using a different lot but it has a chalky texture compared to the smooth and plastic clays of their predecessors. I use the Yamadas as an example because it is a family line of potters using shudei from a time when it was plentiful to the present.
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LeoFox
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Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:25 pm

Regarding taisuke shiraiwa's clay- I asked florent from tdj about it once. This was his reply:
Basically Shiraiwa-san use a clay from Tokoname and mix to it sand from its homeland Hakodate seaside.

I’m not sure if he use this only one type, or maybe two types (there is one which is darker). But never heard from him about especially iron rich clay.
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Baisao
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Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:29 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:25 pm
Regarding taisuke shiraiwa's clay- I asked florent from tdj about it once. This was his reply:
Basically Shiraiwa-san use a clay from Tokoname and mix to it sand from its homeland Hakodate seaside.

I’m not sure if he use this only one type, or maybe two types (there is one which is darker). But never heard from him about especially iron rich clay.
Great info! Thank you.
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Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:34 pm

Also, this is some info from toru of artistic nippon about yamada sou's clay. I asked him about the clay sou used in the wood fired teapot I bought from him. I heard he had blended the clay with shigaraki clay, which is more resistant to wood firing. Turns out in my pot's case, it is a blend of tokonome clay, but not "shudei". Apparently sou reserves the shudei term for clay that is blended to be red..and he adds iron oxide into his shudei. Here is the correspondence with toru. I asked the questions. He answered them after personally asking sou at his workshop
1.) Does this mean that the clay is natural clay since there is no added iron? [Here I am asking about the clay of my wood fired pot]

Yes, it is natural clay.

2.) If it is natural red clay, can this be considered "hon-shudei"?

Hon-shudei refers to Tokoname clay which is rich in natural minerals, ie. does not have any iron added.
The color turns red under oxidized firing.
The same clay will turn a greyish color etc. under de-oxidized firing so the term reflect the color of the fired pieces.
(Please refer to teapots by Gafu on my website which are made with clay with no added iron and are a greyish color.
Gafu prefers not to call his shudei teapots Hon-shudei, even though he processes his only shudei clay without iron added.)
As you may know, many craftsmen in Tokoname spend time blending their clay and experimenting with different components in order to get the desired aesthetic effect.
Therefore , as "Hon" means "real", they do not recognize this term as it implies that any other clay is somehow inferior, which is not the case.

3.) There is no shigaraki clay in this blend?

No, he said Tokoname blended clay.

4) I heard rumor that Jozan III collected large amount of hon shudei for his family to use. That is why I was surprised that maybe iron was being added into the clay.

I can't really comment on this as I don't know whether the rumor has any substance.
I own a shudei kyusu by Jozan III which is very red and looks as if iron oxide was added to the clay.
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wave_code
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Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:23 am

Thanks for the additional info @LeoFox. Looking in to all this more is really interesting and also there is so much to learn- when you think Yixing is already complex with different vintages of clay, so on, there is a whole different level at play here with individual artists mixing their own clays, using different blends for different firings or effects... makes the head spin.
DailyTX
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Sun May 21, 2023 12:19 am

@wave_code have you found a Tokoname pot that captured your interest yet? I picked up this pot recently. While I believe it's Japanese made I am not 100% sure it's Tokoname. Since it's exported without artist name, it has a made in Japan stamp, it might be mass production as well haha. The shape reminded me of the Chinese medicine pot which captured my attention :lol:
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wave_code
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Wed May 24, 2023 12:24 pm

nice carving on that one @DailyTX - I like how it has ink painting type shading look to it.

I still don't have any tokoname that I can say for sure is 100%. I have a soft spot for these roughly made vintage pots that tend to be made in Chinese style shapes, but they almost never have any markings on them but I am positive they are Japanese given their overall styling. Their coloration makes me feel tokoname is the most likely though. The ones I have picked up tend to have pretty thin walls so they're great for sheng and I do like the quality of the clay.
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