Chaozhou/Shantou

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Bok
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Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 am

Pieter W. wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:22 am
This information is useful to me. If you like I can collect some hammer prices of CZ teapots (I think) in Dutch auctions.
Best regards, Pieter
I don’t think that Dutch prices will reflect the reality of the market for those pots. Highly likely they are either over priced or undervalued, both due to that there are too few people who will actually be able to date them accurately.

As I mentioned before from 5$-1000s of $ anything goes
theredbaron
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Sun May 05, 2019 5:04 am

Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:45 am
Pieter W. wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 1:22 am
This information is useful to me. If you like I can collect some hammer prices of CZ teapots (I think) in Dutch auctions.
Best regards, Pieter
I don’t think that Dutch prices will reflect the reality of the market for those pots. Highly likely they are either over priced or undervalued, both due to that there are too few people who will actually be able to date them accurately.

As I mentioned before from 5$-1000s of $ anything goes

Is there really much of a market for CZ pots with benchmark prices such as for Yixing pots?
From what i know, from a drinker's perspective CZ pots have a very limited use in enhancing the taste, just for Dancong teas, and old pots do not have the reputation to improve the taste as compared between old and new yixings. From a collector's perspective CZ pots have always been more users' pots in the past, very localized and never had the myth and refined art of Yixing pots.
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Sun May 05, 2019 6:13 am

@theredbaron the high end prices refer to Qing dynasty era pots. I have seen a few and they can be exquisite! Asian market only, I don’t think many Westerners if any would pay that much.
theredbaron
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Sun May 05, 2019 7:50 am

Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 6:13 am
theredbaron the high end prices refer to Qing dynasty era pots. I have seen a few and they can be exquisite! Asian market only, I don’t think many Westerners if any would pay that much.

Are these more for the general antiques market? I have not heard any tea enthusiasts paying much attention to antique CZ pots the way how they appreciate Yixing pots. Do you have any pictures to Qing dynasty CZ pots?
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:14 am

theredbaron wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:50 am
Are these more for the general antiques market? I have not heard any tea enthusiasts paying much attention to antique CZ pots the way how they appreciate Yixing pots. Do you have any pictures to Qing dynasty CZ pots?
How many Asian tea enthusiasts with deep pockets do you know? ;)

I don’t have any pictures.
theredbaron
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:20 am

Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:14 am

How many Asian tea enthusiasts with deep pockets do you know? ;)

I don’t have any pictures.
A few. They use quing dynasty pots. Don't forget - i have lived and worked in Asia for almost 30 years.
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:30 am

theredbaron wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:20 am
Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:14 am

How many Asian tea enthusiasts with deep pockets do you know? ;)

I don’t have any pictures.
A few. They use quing dynasty pots. Don't forget - i have lived and worked in Asia for almost 30 years.
Oops... confused you for a moment with the Dutch gentleman, sorry about that, no offence!

It is a niche for sure, but the gap between the widely available vintage stuff that can be had for really cheap and the better executed fine wares from Qing/Roc is huge! I think it might have to do with the also underrated and less popular Dancong teas, as both go best together. If you aren’t into Dancong a serious investment into a Chaoshan pot does not make much sense.
theredbaron
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:39 am

Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:30 am

Oops... confused you for a moment with the Dutch gentleman, sorry about that, no offence!

It is a niche for sure, but the gap between the widely available vintage stuff that can be had for really cheap and the better executed fine wares from Qing/Roc is huge! I think it might have to do with the also underrated and less popular Dancong teas, as both go best together. If you aren’t into Dancong a serious investment into a Chaoshan pot does not make much sense.
I wonder who would take greater offense when being confused for being either. I guess the Dutch might be... ;)

But yes, i only got interested in CZ pots when i started to like Daocong teas. CZ clay definately is a marked improvement when drinking Daocong tea, which is quite recent, only a few years ago. I have some of the cheap vintage pots which somehow accumulated over time, and i was not overly impressed when i used them, and neither with the cheap glossy new ones. But when i got some better new ones with pure clay, i found them definately better for Daocong than when i used Yixing.
But as you said, Daocong is a niche tea.
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:46 am

theredbaron wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:39 am
But yes, i only got interested in CZ pots when i started to like Daocong teas. CZ clay definately is a marked improvement when drinking Daocong tea, which is quite recent, only a few years ago. I have some of the cheap vintage pots which somehow accumulated over time, and i was not overly impressed when i used them, and neither with the cheap glossy new ones.
I think we got a similar experience here. I never liked CZ pots until I got a good quality modern one, my vintage on the other hand is surprisingly as nice, so I might have gotten lucky... so far it does very well with my DCs.

Check out Kyarazens old IG posts he sometimes has put up pictures of antique CZ pots. It really is hard to come by some verified antique CZ pots, even only as pictures. They are also rare in general, so if one pops up, the price is naturally high although the market itself is small. At least that is my reasoning.
theredbaron
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Sun May 05, 2019 8:54 am

Bok wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 8:46 am


Check out Kyarazens old IG posts he sometimes has put up pictures of antique CZ pots. It really is hard to come by some verified antique CZ pots, even only as pictures. They are also rare in general, so if one pops up, the price is naturally high although the market itself is small. At least that is my reasoning.
I do like Karazen's posts a lot. But IG posts? You lost me there.
I do like the modern pot you have been posting pictures of a few times. I like it a lot :)
Pieter W.
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Mon May 06, 2019 10:37 am

Thanks a lot for the advice you gave me. The reason for my interest is this: I collect Yixing teapots. In auctions, you see a lot of teapots which are absolute no Yixing. The description is most of the time wrong. But the only description they know is 'Yixing' for every red teapot. The hammer prices are sometimes at 'Yixing height'. Sometimes CZ teapots (I start to know a little bit now) will go for € 200 - up til € 700. I want to learn the difference between the teapots and you are learning me, thanks to again. And besides that: I like green tea in general and use a Yixing teapot for brewing it. 8-) Kind regards, Pieter
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Mon May 06, 2019 11:22 am

@Pieter W. try Duanni with green tea, it might surprise you!

200-700 seems high for most of the CZ pots that surface, probably due to lack of proper identification... auction houses in the west do usually not know much about clay teapots, porcelain yes, clay much less so.
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Mon May 06, 2019 12:23 pm

My impression is that it is often the quality of the decoration that is more important to many western collectors, rather than the material, or functionality. There are still some good deals that can be made in flea markets in western europe with a bit of luck, mainly late qing/early ROC export stuff. Japanese tokoname is another red clay to be sometimes found (e.g. dragon decorated vases or large teapots.).
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Mon May 06, 2019 10:41 pm

Pieter W. wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 10:37 am
I like green tea in general and use a Yixing teapot for brewing it
Most Yixing is probably not ideal for green tea, except some Duanni and Zhuni clay.
Otherwise you will probably be better off with plain old porcelain or a Japanese vessel, optimised for green teas. Depends on the kind of green tea though.
Pieter W.
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Thu May 09, 2019 12:18 pm

Hello to all of you, every post id most helpfull to me. Thanks a lot. Now I post some photo's. Please give me your opinion. Best regards, Pieter.
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Last edited by Victoria on Thu May 09, 2019 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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