Chaozhou/Shantou

commonbrew
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Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:31 am

I just picked up my first clay teaware, a Chaozhou red clay pot from tea habitat. I'm loving it so far, but I tend to hear it's most recommended to brew dancong and I personally brew a lot more yancha than dancong so I was wondering if there's any reason I shouldn't use this type of clay for exclusively yancha. As a secondary question since I drink a lot of daily drinker yancha that is affordable on a student's budget: is it better to stick to brewing the higher quality yancha in clay and my everyday teas in porcelain to avoid sorption of harsh flavors?
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LeoFox
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Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:56 pm

commonbrew wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:31 am
I just picked up my first clay teaware, a Chaozhou red clay pot from tea habitat. I'm loving it so far, but I tend to hear it's most recommended to brew dancong and I personally brew a lot more yancha than dancong so I was wondering if there's any reason I shouldn't use this type of clay for exclusively yancha. As a secondary question since I drink a lot of daily drinker yancha that is affordable on a student's budget: is it better to stick to brewing the higher quality yancha in clay and my everyday teas in porcelain to avoid sorption of harsh flavors?
If you have good yancha (priced $1/g or higher) I would recommend porcelain or some high fired non muting clay.

Cz tends to be quite muting - there are exceptions of course.
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Baisao
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Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:17 pm

commonbrew wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 9:31 am
I just picked up my first clay teaware, a Chaozhou red clay pot from tea habitat. I'm loving it so far, but I tend to hear it's most recommended to brew dancong and I personally brew a lot more yancha than dancong so I was wondering if there's any reason I shouldn't use this type of clay for exclusively yancha. As a secondary question since I drink a lot of daily drinker yancha that is affordable on a student's budget: is it better to stick to brewing the higher quality yancha in clay and my everyday teas in porcelain to avoid sorption of harsh flavors?
Individual clay/firing/craftsmanship/shape/volume/thickness/etc. make every teapot unique. To say that a CZ teapot is best for dançong is an overly broad statement. I'm in a room at the moment literally surrounded by dozens of teapots and not one of them brews like another. No region, clay, or time period is consistently best.

You can let the teapot select the tea by trying various teas with your teapot and seeing what qualities you like. See how your teapot changes the character of the texture, flavor, low-medium-high aromatics, richness of the tea liquor. Maybe your CZ teapot is not ideal (to you) for dançong at all.

Or you can brew whatever you like in your teapot(s). Buildup of waxes will be slowed by rinsing well with hot water after each session. I believe that it is best to reset teapots when these waxes begin to cover the pores of the clay interior. We pay a lot of money for clays, only to cover them up with oxidized leaf waxes.

Personally, I find a lot of overlap between dançong and yancha and my section of teapots for each reflect this.

One thing I am certain of is that If your teas have harsh flavors then something is amiss. Definitely do not use your clay teapot for yancha with a lot of salinity because salt is difficult to rinse out. The same applies to overt smokiness, like some lapsang souchong. Otherwise, do what you feel is best rather than following lore.
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Bok
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Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:54 pm

Baisao wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:17 pm
No region, clay, or time period is consistently best.
Baisao wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:17 pm
You can let the teapot select the tea by trying various teas with your teapot and seeing what qualities you like. See how your teapot changes the character of the texture, flavor, low-medium-high aromatics, richness of the tea liquor. Maybe your CZ teapot is not ideal (to you) for dançong at all.
Baisao wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:17 pm
Otherwise, do what you feel is best rather than following lore.
All the above +1!

Depending on the individual pot, I can report that CZ clay can brew a rather nice cup of green Baozhong... which would go against most Western-established-tea-lore :lol:
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wave_code
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Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:02 pm

To add to the pile of do what works best for you I can say I use mine mainly for TGY because I don't really do dancong or yancha, but I also quite like CZ clay (both reduction fired and not) for certain sheng. my non-reduction fired ones really tone down rougher sheng in a nice way. It can be an even more absorptive clay than yixing from my limited experience of 3 different CZ pots, but as @Baisao says hot rinses can go a long way, and after some experimentation it isn't the end of the world to reset a pot if need be.

While I've heard the teas that the shop specializes in are very good (again not my area) Tea Habitat I've felt does tend to post some opinions/statements on clays in a very absolutist manner that I personally wouldn't agree with...
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Bok
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Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:03 pm

wave_code wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:02 pm
Tea Habitat I've felt does tend to post some opinions/statements on clays in a very absolutist manner that I personally wouldn't agree with...
Agreed... teaware is def not one of their strengths.
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LeoFox
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Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:02 pm

Bok wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:03 pm
wave_code wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:02 pm
Tea Habitat I've felt does tend to post some opinions/statements on clays in a very absolutist manner that I personally wouldn't agree with...
Agreed... teaware is def not one of their strengths.
Nor a lot of their teas in my opinion.
commonbrew
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2022 1:00 pm
Location: Boston, USA

Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:04 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:56 pm

If you have good yancha (priced $1/g or higher) I would recommend porcelain or some high fired non muting clay.

Cz tends to be quite muting - there are exceptions of course.
I should probably try some of my nicer yancha with similar brewing parameters in my teapot and then porcelain before making a decision
Baisao wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 1:17 pm
Individual clay/firing/craftsmanship/shape/volume/thickness/etc. make every teapot unique. To say that a CZ teapot is best for dançong is an overly broad statement. I'm in a room at the moment literally surrounded by dozens of teapots and not one of them brews like another. No region, clay, or time period is consistently best.

You can let the teapot select the tea by trying various teas with your teapot and seeing what qualities you like. See how your teapot changes the character of the texture, flavor, low-medium-high aromatics, richness of the tea liquor. Maybe your CZ teapot is not ideal (to you) for dançong at all.

Or you can brew whatever you like in your teapot(s). Buildup of waxes will be slowed by rinsing well with hot water after each session. I believe that it is best to reset teapots when these waxes begin to cover the pores of the clay interior. We pay a lot of money for clays, only to cover them up with oxidized leaf waxes.

Personally, I find a lot of overlap between dançong and yancha and my section of teapots for each reflect this.

One thing I am certain of is that If your teas have harsh flavors then something is amiss. Definitely do not use your clay teapot for yancha with a lot of salinity because salt is difficult to rinse out. The same applies to overt smokiness, like some lapsang souchong. Otherwise, do what you feel is best rather than following lore.
That seems smart I just got this teapot so there's no need for me to be too hasty with making a decision on this and I should take some time to experiment. Thanks for the advice on that as well as the washing, and the harsh flavors honestly are from my substandard yancha. My collection of quality yancha is dwindling while I wait for shipping from china, and I have plenty of other types of quality tea, but nothing beats yancha for me when it's cold and snowy out like it is here. Oddly enough, though I actually end up drinking them cold brewed, because that's what I find brings out the best in just-ok yanchas.
Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:54 pm
Depending on the individual pot, I can report that CZ clay can brew a rather nice cup of green Baozhong... which would go against most Western-established-tea-lore :lol:
Well I do like some good Baozhong so I'll need to try that out. I'm already really liking the teapot so if I end up liking how it affects a lot of my teas I might end up collecting multiple teapots a lot faster than I thought.
wave_code wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 2:02 pm
While I've heard the teas that the shop specializes in are very good (again not my area) Tea Habitat I've felt does tend to post some opinions/statements on clays in a very absolutist manner that I personally wouldn't agree with...
Bok wrote:
Wed Dec 28, 2022 6:03 pm
Agreed... teaware is def not one of their strengths.
While I like my teapot quite a bit, I really have nothing to compare it too, but I'm pleasantly surprised. I didn't have many expectations for this since I just ended up seeing it on sale, and decided to try clay teaware while ordering some of their dancong. The tea I received is good, but felt a bit expensive for what I got, and the free 2022 sheng puerh that comes with orders over $100 was actually nice even though young sheng is usually not for me.

Edit: fixed a quote I haven't used any forums in a while
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Darbotek
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Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:45 pm

Starting to get a nice shine to it!
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ferg
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Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:52 am

Teapot collection has doubled. An old Chaozhou piece from Bok arrived over this past weekend. To post close ups soon..

Inside tea closet
Inside tea closet
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Old CZ
Old CZ
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Andrew S
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Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:06 am

ferg wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:52 am
Teapot collection has doubled. An old Chaozhou piece from Bok arrived over this past weekend. To post close ups soon..
Teapot collections do tend to keep doubling like amoebas...

In my limited experience, I feel that old CZ pots are a fun area to explore, and it's good that you got 'before' photos of yours; looking forward to seeing how shiny it gets with a bit of use.

Andrew
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ferg
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Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:17 pm

Andrew S wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:06 am

In my limited experience, I feel that old CZ pots are a fun area to explore, and it's good that you got 'before' photos of yours; looking forward to seeing how shiny it gets with a bit of use.

Hello Andrew. As suggested, I’ve taken many ‘before’ pictures. Went a little snap happy. ;)

Curious if you have any input on this silver smudging on top of lid. Almost resembles a fingerprint, of some type of slurry. Apparently, an attempt has already been made to remove. It’s been further suggested I sodium percarbonate the thing and then try to use a magic eraser. I worry doing so could cause the outer coating to also come off.

I welcome any input you may have.

aerial horizontal
aerial horizontal
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aerial vertical
aerial vertical
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fingerprint close up
fingerprint close up
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Some chipping at lid skirt..

from front
from front
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left side
left side
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Last edited by ferg on Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ferg
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Thu Apr 13, 2023 12:24 pm

..continued..

right side
right side
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another aerial
another aerial
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Neat to see tool marks on spout! Some
minor chipping. Just hope it doesn’t continue and end up in my cup.

spout close up
spout close up
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More tool marks where handle meets body. Personally, I like seeing signs of how it was constructed.

body close up
body close up
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handle close up
handle close up
FFA58C31-ACD7-4E8B-AC6B-7613A392A2ED.jpeg (201.13 KiB) Viewed 3844 times
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wave_code
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Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:51 pm

I feel like the #1 way of identifying old CZ pots even before looking at the clay is chipped spouts and lid skirts :lol:

Try percarbonate for sure to see how that goes. As for a magic eraser, I doubt it would be abbraisive enough to break down the coating - more that I wouldn't use it just because the sponges themselves contain chemicals and break down in to micro-particles as you use them, and I wouldn't want that getting into my clay. For scrubbing pots I usually find loofah pads good. They make good pot rests, plus they are tough and abbraisive enough that you can scrub at a pot surface without actually damaging it. It could just be permanent though - I have a pot with some stains that don't come out but it doesn't affect their use at all. Especially with how quickly CZ gets a patina it will probably just blend right in pretty quickly.
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ferg
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Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:59 pm

@wave_code Thanks for your input!
I will likely steer away from magic eraser if this is the case. Honestly, I am hesitant to use any chemicals. After reading bit more on the percarbonate here, I’m not even sure it’s necessary to go to this extent. With that said, I will now post pics of inside of teapot. The walls appear darker in places, underneath orange streaks. I realize pot was wheel thrown and orange coating applied, so perhaps original base clay underneath was darker. Again, any thoughts are appreciated.

inside 1
inside 1
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inside 2
inside 2
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inside 3
inside 3
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inside 4, hole pic
inside 4, hole pic
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inside 5
inside 5
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