Chaozhou/Shantou

Chadrinkincat
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:41 pm

@Bok It’s a shame there isn’t a FB group like Dr. lu’s for CZ pot. A book would be nice addition too but that is probably asking a lot.
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Bok
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Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:48 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:41 pm
Bok It’s a shame there isn’t a FB group like Dr. lu’s for CZ pot. A book would be nice addition too but that is probably asking a lot.
Probably not enough demand, or willingness to share of those who actually know enough to write a book.

While we’re on it, a reduction fired Chaozhou of mine. No idea about it’s age. Performance is a mixed bag so far compared to normal red Chaozhou.
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Minatures
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Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:22 pm

I have noticed more in Asia markets, CZ pots are more true to the original colours of orange red. In the UK, we can only get our hands on silk finish burgundy red pots. I appreciate composition and clay sources may be different but still love how it reacts to seasoning by going brown and shiny. I’m just a beginner with a factory pot that doesn’t even hold a conventional style, but it’s so addictive.

At least I think it’s turning brown, or as they say love is blind 💕
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Bok
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Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:17 pm

Might be the pictures. The older method of raw clay and glazed with one or more layers of red clay has for some reason not been used after the 90s???

You could always find also more redder raw clay but never shiny like the modern ones. Not sure why that is.

Some still do the more orange clay of before but it’s rare in Asian markets as well. I heard that one kind of original CZ clay has become rare but I have no confirmation for that, so it might just be the usual marketing noise…
Minatures
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Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:22 am

Made in CZ opposed to CZ pot…oh dear haha.

Might as well spend the time practising my technique and learning my favourite teas before lockdown allows me to fly to HK to upgrade to more realistic looking ones together with a tea haul!

Thanks for the feedback Bok, no wonder you appear to be more into vintage/antique tea ware 😎 that’s another level for me right now…
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Bok
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Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:52 am

How small is too small? This teapot is definitely too small to be practical. But it’s also too cute to be passed over…

It’s fully functional and has beautiful proportions and workmanship, I’d go so far as to say it’s much better looking than many of its contemporary vintage Chaozhou pots of that style.

Which were as I’ve mentioned before apparently some sort of wedding gift teapots. It’s the first micro pot I’ve seen, even for Chaozhou which can already get much smaller than Yixing, at least more frequently.

Can’t use it, but love it.
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Youzi
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Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:09 pm

.m. wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:47 am
For the sake of comparison, here's a modern pot by Chen Zhijian i've aquired through Zoey. Lovely clay and meticulous craftsmanship. As you can see even through the bad color balance the clay here is more red than orange (second pic shows it next to white label hongni). There are probably different natural sources of Chaozhou clay of different quality (e.g. the clay used in cheap kettles is obviously not the same grade as this one), and the higher grade is probably quite scarce as @Bok said. I suspect that some of the color differences might do also with firing temperature.
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May I ask how much was the pot?
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Bok
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Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:11 pm

My new/old favourite Shantou pot. Delicious tea with all teas I tried so far with it, excelling as usual with Dancong.
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wave_code
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Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:02 am

Nice one @Bok. To follow up, here is the same shape in reduction firing.
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Or at least, I am assuming this is reduction firing- actually the first one I have so maybe someone can confirm/deny. It still has the outer slurry coating, but its uniform to the inside color, both very dark brown/not quite black. also that little speck inside the lid that flaked off I can see a bit of red that survived, so I figured reduction rather than a different dark blend of clay.
Working on getting it cleaned up today. Despite having the the always required spout chip I actually don't think this pot was ever used- there was still little bits of clay dust hanging out in the bottom like it had just come out of the kiln. Currently battling with it to get rid of decades of 'vitrine smell' - sometimes I think getting tea oils and stains and grime out of old pots is even easier than trying to pull out decades of potpourri and house/food smells.
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Bok
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Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:16 am

wave_code wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:02 am
Nice one Bok. To follow up, here is the same shape in reduction firing.
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Or at least, I am assuming this is reduction firing- actually the first one I have so maybe someone can confirm/deny. It still has the outer slurry coating, but its uniform to the inside color, both very dark brown/not quite black. also that little speck inside the lid that flaked off I can see a bit of red that survived, so I figured reduction rather than a different dark blend of clay.
Working on getting it cleaned up today. Despite having the the always required spout chip I actually don't think this pot was ever used- there was still little bits of clay dust hanging out in the bottom like it had just come out of the kiln. Currently battling with it to get rid of decades of 'vitrine smell' - sometimes I think getting tea oils and stains and grime out of old pots is even easier than trying to pull out decades of potpourri and house/food smells.
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Same to you, very nice pot! As far as I am concerned that looks like reduction fired Chaozhou to me.

The bits of clay are sometimes really caked in, not bits that came off afterwards or clay dust. You’ll find out after cleaning how permanent or not they are. Could be older than you think, that pot…
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wave_code
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Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:53 am

Bok wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:16 am
The bits of clay are sometimes really caked in, not bits that came off afterwards or clay dust. You’ll find out after cleaning how permanent or not they are. Could be older than you think, that pot…
Yeah a bunch more has flaked off the lid as I've been cleaning it, in for a second boil now. I was thinking about the age... all I could guess it probably 80s or earlier? Anything beyond that I'm kinda at a loss for the ability to even put a decade on with any accuracy... I come across more CZ pots than any other recently it seems, and I've been trying to figure out some way of being able to get more reasonable date ranges. So far all I have to go on it seems is a bit with style/shape and the slurry coatings, or if the person I get it from has a plausible memory of when/where the pot came from. Lao Anshun is the only seal that I know, but also that is still kind of a grey area to me- that it seems at one point the workshop was passed on/continued from the original craftsman to the rest of the family, so no idea if/when the marking changed, and/or if it was just a general workshop marking anyway. For example I picked up a set recently more just out of curiosity and for the tea boat, supposedly is from the 70s or 80s, but its clearly injection or slip mold made because I can see the line on the pot, but its also still got a slurry coating and a slightly different but still much more orange interior to it than more modern pots I've seen. I have no idea at what point molding became more common for CZ pots.
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Bok
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Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:28 am

@wave_code if you find a way to date them let me know! :lol: It’s tough…

Mine above is from Late Qing to early Republican. Some details look very similar to yours, but more clues may as always be inside the pot.

I got a few question marks in my collections as well, haven’t found definitive answers from anyone yet. Yours looks earlier than 80s to me in any case.
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LeoFox
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Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:25 am

I have been playing with an antique cz pot (~85 ml). I was told this is very high fired and that this makes it rare for an old cz (pre - ROC 1800-1850 according to experts)

There are lots of kiln changes in the coloration, with some potential partial reduction occurring inside. Very high pitched ring, almost like porcelain. Seems to work very well with yancha- preserving the high notes while pushing the tea more greatly than porcelain- and presenting a richer flavor overall than f1 hongni.

I have been having a lot of trouble taking pictures of it with my phone: the focus always goes off, even when I do a manual focus. This has not been a problem with my other pots. Also, the gradations of color that shift with the light have been impossible to capture.

Note pictures taken after percarbonate reset and efforts to take off some mineral deposits. Some still remain in hard to reach crevices that I'm letting go.




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Baisao
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Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:15 pm

@LeoFox - I like the wet look of it.

I don’t know why your range sensor is having difficulties focusing on the pot. All the reasons I can think of would only occur in extremes.

The hues and textures of these reddish teapots have always been photographically elusive. I try to recover the color by adjusting in post but it is always an approximation. The only solution is to buy more teapots.
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wave_code
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Thu Jan 06, 2022 5:54 am

Such a nice pot @LeoFox! It really has a lot of character.

I've had a couple more lucky scores recently, both look unused and like they were just stashed away or used as vitrine ware. They still need a bit of cleaning up though.

First one here is a Lao Anshun pot with fencai, something I've been wanting to see in person for a while now. At 60ml its the smallest pot I have now, should be fun for trying out more proper CZ style brewing proportions for solo drinking than I usually use. Decoration aside for how small it is the pot is very nicely made, so I can see why this studio had a good reputation - everything is very fine and the interior details like the underside of the lid and the spout hole are much more defined and well done than on a lot of CZ pots. Would be nice to know what the second signature is aside from the studio seal- from what I've gathered the studio was a family business (Zhang), and produced a lot of these fencai and other pots in the 70s and 80s, and that the studio was passed on and is actually I think still running today, although the seals/names are different now.
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Second one is almost like the polar opposite - very big for a CZ pot at about 170ml. I like having a heavier/chunkier pot in this clay, and I don't have anything in this size so it fills a nice gap for me. Pretty rough on the slurry coating, but it gives it some character. I also really like the subtle double-line around the body of the pot.
Age wise, if the note it came with from the original owner stuck on the bottom was correct this was purchased in Taiwan in the late 50s. Not looking forward to trying to get that residue off of there though, if it is even possible
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The last one here I have had for a bit, but I don't think I put up any photos... I got this mainly just for the boat and that I liked the idea of having an intended 'set'. The pot is injection molded, but I was curious still to see the clay since it is supposedly still from the 70s or 80s - the rough shape and printing style of the packaging seemed to fit that, at least 90s if not older. Despite being slip cast or injection mold made, and quite roughly at that as you can seal the line very easily, the interior clay does look not exactly the same but also not too far off from a lot of my other CZ pots. Not exact, but also each one is a different shade of orange/red on their own anyway. I actually have still yet to try it - I need to pick out a tea and give it a head to head comparison. I have to admit I have a bit of a prejudice though, I guess just association that anything molded like that would be really bad clay with additives, but it would be interesting to know if I could pinpoint the production date more though of when CZ started producing molded pots like this and if they all used garbage clay from the very get go.
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