Clay properties of different periods

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Bok
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Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:58 pm

steanze wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:38 pm
for the effects of the not-so-good hongni, it depends on what not-so-good hongni we are talking about. Niangaotu is less porous, quite like porcelain. Nenni+iron oxide is a bit more porous, and can impart a little bit of mineral/iron taste to the water for some time when it's new.
So we could say that well-seasoned not-so good hongi has no detrimental effect on a tea, whereas Zini can have good or bad effect on it. Right?
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steanze
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Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm

Bok wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:58 pm
So we could say that well-seasoned not-so good hongi has no detrimental effect on a tea, whereas Zini can have good or bad effect on it. Right?
Yes, and whether zini has a good or bad effect depends not just on the quality of the zini, but also importantly on whether the tea you're brewing is a good fit for being brewed with zini.
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ShuShu
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Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:17 pm

steanze wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:21 pm
Bok wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:58 pm
So we could say that well-seasoned not-so good hongi has no detrimental effect on a tea, whereas Zini can have good or bad effect on it. Right?
Yes, and whether zini has a good or bad effect depends not just on the quality of the zini, but also importantly on whether the tea you're brewing is a good fit for being brewed with zini.
What about “factory 2 or 5” stuff that come up somet8mes?
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steanze
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Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:13 pm

Depends on the pot. Usually not as good as F1, sometimes better than modern. Usually the workmanship is clumsy.
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 am

An anecdote from a recent visit to my tea shop: This time chatting about pot, I found out that he one of the pots he has been using in rotation for more thirty years is an 80ies Zini F1 pot. You could not tell by the looks of it, never been polished or raised, just been used dozens of times per day to brew tea for customers - all that with high mountain oolongs!

Guess what Kyarazen mentioned once in passing is true, any effects on the tea get lost at some point when all the pores are clogged with the remnants of tea. After a certain time of seasoning, clay matter less and less...
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steanze
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:47 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 am
An anecdote from a recent visit to my tea shop: This time chatting about pot, I found out that he one of the pots he has been using in rotation for more thirty years is an 80ies Zini F1 pot. You could not tell by the looks of it, never been polished or raised, just been used dozens of times per day to brew tea for customers - all that with high mountain oolongs!

Guess what Kyarazen mentioned once in passing is true, any effects on the tea get lost at some point when all the pores are clogged with the remnants of tea. After a certain time of seasoning, clay matter less and less...
hmmm I have a ROC period zini pot that was used plenty over the past 100 years and still has effect on the tea. I wonder whether that depends more on the hardness of the water used and calcium deposits...
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:05 am

Can be, water here is rather soft. That pot looked almost black on the outside (extremity of the body).

I guess there are no absolute truths as far as clay pots are concerned, so many variables that can all alter the result.

Was just a possible singular exception to the general consensus ;)
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steanze
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:13 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:05 am
Can be, water here is rather soft. That pot looked almost black on the outside (extremity of the body).

I guess there are no absolute truths as far as clay pots are concerned, so many variables that can all alter the result.

Was just a possible singular exception to the general consensus ;)
Or it's possible that that pot got used more despite in a shorter period :)
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Bok
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Which seems more plausible in the case of a tea shop!
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tealifehk
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:27 pm

I've found wall thickness to be one of largest factors re: clay's effect on tea. Thicker walls seem to mute more and thinner walls preserve more of the aromatics. Would love to see that F1 pot! :D
oeroe
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:24 am

tealifehk wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:27 pm
I've found wall thickness to be one of largest factors re: clay's effect on tea. Thicker walls seem to mute more and thinner walls preserve more of the aromatics. Would love to see that F1 pot! :D
Do you think it's the wall thickness in itself?
Or the ability to maintain the heat in general? I mean I've been thinking that ability to maintain heat varies from clay to clay as well, it's not just a matter of thickness. I have two modern pots of similar size and thickness, and the "duanni" cools much faster than the "hongni".
What do you think? I've been thinking that the biggest advantage of zisha vs. porcelain is the ability to maintain heat, and thus get more consistent brews out of the leaves.
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:30 am

oeroe wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:24 am
tealifehk wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:27 pm
I've found wall thickness to be one of largest factors re: clay's effect on tea. Thicker walls seem to mute more and thinner walls preserve more of the aromatics. Would love to see that F1 pot! :D
Do you think it's the wall thickness in itself?
Or the ability to maintain the heat in general? I mean I've been thinking that ability to maintain heat varies from clay to clay as well, it's not just a matter of thickness. I have two modern pots of similar size and thickness, and the "duanni" cools much faster than the "hongni".
What do you think? I've been thinking that the biggest advantage of zisha vs. porcelain is the ability to maintain heat, and thus get more consistent brews out of the leaves.
I think it's heat retention, wall thickness and porosity. Duanni is known to be porous. I have pots in the same 80s zini clay and the thicker one mutes much more than the thinner ones! Similar firing level and all.
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:39 am

tealifehk wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:30 am
I think it's heat retention, wall thickness and porosity. Duanni is known to be porous. I have pots in the same 80s zini clay and the thicker one mutes much more than the thinner ones! Similar firing level and all.
I agree and have noticed the same thing over the whole range of my teapots, from various Yixing to Wood fired Taiwanese pots, outside only glazed and even porcelain:

Wall thickness is what seems to influence more than the other factors - After seasoning and raising the pot.
My best pots are the thinnest, no matter the material.
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d.manuk
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:51 am

I’ve been using a duan ni for shou for a while, and it has gotten quite dark since then. It’s a medium brown now. I almost never poured tea over the pot.

I want to reset it to use it for young sheng. If I boil the pot to reset it, will most of the brown color go away? I feel like it’s there to stay given how staining shou can be.

Maybe it will also taint the flavor of sheng.
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steanze
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Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:27 pm

tealifehk wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:30 am
I have pots in the same 80s zini clay and the thicker one mutes much more than the thinner ones! Similar firing level and all.
Interesting. I have not experienced that at all. My thicker hongnis are just as muting as the thinner hongnis. Thicker zhunis as muting as thinner zhunis. Same goes for zini and duanni.

For gaoshan oolongs and dancong, thinner pots are usually better, but for aged sheng that is not usually the case.
Last edited by steanze on Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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