Clay properties of different periods

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OCTO
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Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:19 pm

tingjunkie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:40 am
Personally, I don't subscribe to a rule about older clay always being better, but there are some considerations people have not mentioned yet. I may have my time periods or years off, so please correct me if I'm mistaken:

1) Clay Processing: Prior to ROC period most clay was crushed and processed by hand. The Yixing ores were crushed by hand, or in a grinding mill powered by livestock. This contributed to a certain level of clay particle size and porosity. After ROC, it was more common for the ore to be crushed by machine, and lead to a different level of porosity. I also believe that once clay blocks were made from the ore, in the past they were aged for longer than in Factory times. Generally speaking, the longer a clay is aged or "fermented" the better for the teapot. The Factories were trying to crank out lots of Yixing wares, and aging the clay for decades was not in their plan. Finally, when clay is worked entirely by hand, and teapots are entirely hand built by beating slabs of clay in to shape, you're going to end up with a different porosity level than when pots are half hand made or completely mold made. People talk about how beating the clay by hand creates a smooth outer "skin" to the clay, and achieves a double layer, each with its own porosity.

2) Firing: Prior to the 1960's, wood-fired dragon kilns were the typical way to fire Yixing pots. After 1960's the Factories switched to using coal and gas powered down-draft and tunnel kilns instead. Later on past F1 days, even electric kilns were used more frequently, changing the characteristics of the teapots yet again. Of course these very different kilns will have different effects on how the teapots come out and perform.

3) Clay Masters: Back in the old days, Yixing had master potters, master calligraphers, AND clay masters. The latter were folks who only processed clay, and were often not potters themselves. I get the impression that a lot of their specialized knowledge has been lost over the years.

I'm not trying to imply fully hand made pots will always outperform half-hand made pots, or that dragon kiln pots are always superior to downdraft kiln pots, but there's definitely something to be said for Yixing's magical reputation being formed well before the advent of the modern processes invented in the later half of the 20th Century. I think there's also something to be said for people who are passionate about anything to romanticize the past and declare that things just aren't like they used to be, whether that's true or not.

+1. I agree with tingjunkie and steanze on their inputs. Back in the early days i.e. ROC, uniformity is extremely rare as evert pot is handcrafted and clays are also processed by hands. You will also tend to find more impurities in early period pots as compared to the modern filtration methods used in our time and age.

To add to the already excellent inputs... craft masters / artists who can afford it will also tend to buy and store their own clay. These clays are sometimes left to age over time. This aging factor of the clay also plays a part in the overall character of the clay over time.

my 2cents....

Cheers!!
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OCTO
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Fri May 01, 2020 9:11 pm

BUMP!

Since we are talking a lot about clay and vintage lately, this would be a good thread to revive.

Cheers!
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Youzi
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Sat May 02, 2020 2:50 am

I'm always open for clay talk. :D

One very important distinction has to be made though, which I'd like everyone to keep in mind.

There is ore, and there is the clay (processerd ore).

It's important, because basically before the end of F1 all the clay was a mix of various ores together.

Like for example antique zhuni is many times a mix of Zhuni ore , Hongni ore , Nenni ore , Shihuang ore, Duansha or pre fired zhuni, etc.

Clay was also mixed in F1 days, to supply the 4 different colors of Red, Yellow, light brown, dark brown, sometimes maybe black as a +1.

It's only in the recent times (20-40year) that it became possible to make pure, single ore Origin clay.

Before that, meticulous clay selection wasn't widely common, usually only the masters had enough knowledge.

Another thing to keep in mind, that due to technological reasons most of Ming and Qing dynasty clays were made of ores from the shallow ore layer by open pit mining, and only after F1 they started to mine ore from the deeper layers. For example mine no. 4 was 800m deep.
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OCTO
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Sat May 02, 2020 2:53 am

Youzi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 2:50 am
I'm always open for clay talk. :D

One very important distinction has to be made though, which I'd like everyone to keep in mind.

There is ore, and there is the clay (processerd ore).

It's important, because basically before the end of F1 all the clay was a mix of various ores together.

Like for example antique zhuni is many times a mix of Zhuni ore , Hongni ore , Nenni ore , Shihuang ore, Duansha or pre fired zhuni, etc.

Clay was also mixed in F1 days, to supply the 4 different colors of Red, Yellow, light brown, dark brown, sometimes maybe black as a +1.

It's only in the recent times (20-40year) that it became possible to make pure, single ore Origin clay.

Before that, meticulous clay selection wasn't widely common, usually only the masters had enough knowledge.

Another thing to keep in mind, that due to technological reasons most of Ming and Qing dynasty clays were made of ores from the shallow ore layer by open pit mining, and only after F1 they started to mine ore from the deeper layers. For example mine no. 4 was 800m deep.
@Youzi

Good input! +1 😁😁
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Youzi
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Sat May 02, 2020 3:51 am

I'd also add this article I made recently about the Traditional way Zisha Clay was processed:

[LINK]

The one about the modern, F1 processing style is also done, but I have to find good pictures for it...
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OCTO
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Sat May 02, 2020 3:55 am

Youzi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:51 am
I'd also add this article I made recently about the Traditional way Zisha Clay was processed:

[LINK]

The one about the modern, F1 processing style is also done, but I have to find good pictures for it...
@Youzi

Very informative write up..... 👍🏻👍🏻
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steanze
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Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 pm

Youzi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:51 am
I'd also add this article I made recently about the Traditional way Zisha Clay was processed:

[LINK]

The one about the modern, F1 processing style is also done, but I have to find good pictures for it...
Very nice! Here are some closeups of the fired product made from the shallow ore layer:
clay_closeup_1.jpg
clay_closeup_1.jpg (52.86 KiB) Viewed 3732 times
clay_closeup_2.jpg
clay_closeup_2.jpg (32.34 KiB) Viewed 3732 times
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Youzi
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Sun May 03, 2020 11:00 am

steanze wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 10:29 pm
Youzi wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 3:51 am
I'd also add this article I made recently about the Traditional way Zisha Clay was processed:

[LINK]

The one about the modern, F1 processing style is also done, but I have to find good pictures for it...
Very nice! Here are some closeups of the fired product made from the shallow ore layer:

Image
Image
Seems like that pot was used quite a lot. Is that tea stain on the surface. If the color is semi accurate, and we remove the darkening from the years of use it could be a good example Shallow/Middle Layer Zini.

Usually Zini could generally be divided into three subcategories, within the same mine. Shallow, Middle and Bottom Layer Zini. The first two not named usually and just generally referred to as Zini, or after F1 time it is referred to as Qing Shui Ni, because those usually have a lighter brown color (ofc depending on firing temp, etc.). However I'm quite sure everyone is heard of Bottom layer Zini, AKA Di Cao Qing.

Ofc there was Dark colored Zini-s in ancient times too, but it was more uncommon.
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steanze
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Sun May 03, 2020 11:21 am

Youzi wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 11:00 am

Seems like that pot was used quite a lot. Is that tea stain on the surface. If the color is semi accurate, and we remove the darkening from the years of use it could be a good example Shallow/Middle Layer Zini.

Usually Zini could generally be divided into three subcategories, within the same mine. Shallow, Middle and Bottom Layer Zini. The first two not named usually and just generally referred to as Zini, or after F1 time it is referred to as Qing Shui Ni, because those usually have a lighter brown color (ofc depending on firing temp, etc.). However I'm quite sure everyone is heard of Bottom layer Zini, AKA Di Cao Qing.

Ofc there was Dark colored Zini-s in ancient times too, but it was more uncommon.
Yes, a few hundreds of years of use :D the color is pretty accurate. Good summary of zini layers and use in different periods, thank you!
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