Vintage nixing pots

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Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:12 pm

So here we are... after vintage and antique Yixing and vintage and antique Chaozhou clay comes the clay black sheep... older Qinzhou Nixing pots. This is enough of an info dumping here I thought it warranted its own post/thread. I should preface all of this with saying I am not an expert so anyone who has additional or more knowledge, information, or experience to share please do or correct errors you see. A lot of this info was drawn together using some probably very rough google translating and searching. I tried to take a skeptical view of certain resources while looking in to these things so as not to fall for too much vendor 'tea lore', but one can never truly know given my distance to all of this. I just have a big love for liu bao and hope to make it to Guangxi myself some day, which drew my interest to the regional clay as well. With so little info being available in English it seemed a nice place to contribute something and I hope some tea people out there will find some of this interesting or helpful. Onward...

Just to skim over since it is probably pretty common knowledge Nixing clay is drawn from the two banks of the Qin river. One side has a more iron rich hard clay while the other side is soft and has kaolin like characteristics. How finite this source of clay is/was and how it could possibly have changed over the years I don't quite know... but one side supposedly being denser and the other softer when mixed form a good wheel throwing clay. From what I was able to find it sounded like the earliest goods made using “Nixing”, even before things such as vases or jars, was that the clay was found to be of a good consistency for making clay pipes, as well as parts for puppets - however it isn't totally clear to me but it sounded like that particular “Nixing” clay actually came from a different river. What we now know as 'Nixing' clay goods, coming from Qinzhou, may have started around the end of the Qing/early ROC period supposedly developed by a potter named Li Bulao. This modern Nixing pottery, mainly vases from what I can tell, was what was then shown in exhibitions in the US and Belgium and helped to establish a larger industry.

Now, enter teapots... from what I was able to figure out it seems that the first teapots, or at least mass manufacture of teapots, started sometime in the 1950s-60s. I suppose it was possibly used before then too since I'm sure pots in various regions were produced using all sorts of clay just because it was there, so in this case I am more referring to Factory type larger scale production of teaware rather than small scale local only or artist made products. This production seems to have really ramped up probably peaking in the 70s or 80s. In many ways it seems like the production peak and subsequent period was probably also Nixing's worst time in many ways too. Anyone who has seen and handled older Nixing pots can tell that as a generalization the quality ranges from not that great to downright awful. Most of the pots are I am guessing slip cast or mold assisted in some way in parts and then hand finished or assembled, but the workmanship is often very rough and sloppy, the firing is super inconsistent, so on... Clearly a lot of goods were produced, but a lot of it probably being of pretty undesirable quality, which if the industry was intending to compete with or alongside Yixing at that time stood no chance. I know there was export to parts of southeast Asia, perhaps marketed to people who couldn't afford Yixing goods or as direct competition. From what I see come up for sale plenty also made its way over to Europe too, most of which given the condition I see it in was probably used as very cheap vitrine ware goods. All that said, there are pieces out there that aren't half bad – so the tricky thing isn't so much finding old Nixing pots or other teaware, its finding ones that are actually decently produced and fired that takes hunting.

Probably the most famous Nixing pot is the classic “Begonia” pot, which is pictured on the classic Duoteli yellow box liu bao. There are several different sizes of this pot indicated by number, No. 2 I believe being the size on the Duoteli box. This shape seems to have been introduced very early on, and supposedly a way of dating Nixing pots in general is that older pots tend to have have carving on its own, with the brighter coloration in the carving lines starting to show up later on. In addition to different sizes I've also seem different set iterations for the Begonia pot, including the complete set of pot, and 4 cups all of which close in a circular clay case with carving on the outside. Adventure In Every Cup has posted his here on his blog- https://teapotnews.blogspot.com/2018/12 ... ?q=tea+set
There were also reproduction/tribute versions of this design made after the 2000s with better firing and quality control – you can also tell the difference that the reproductions have a maker's seal and muti rather than 3 hole filters.

Identifying older pots... Generally I would say this isn't very hard given their coloration, quality, and distinctive looks - you can tell them apart especially easily once you see them a few times. Other than the Begonia part there are also only a few different major designs that ever seemed to make it to mass export that seem to come up often, so not quite as variable from what I have seen as say Factory 2 Yixing having tons of designs. Being wheel throwing clay they tend to be rounder and wider designs (one of the other common ones being called 'the Pearl'). Often times they come in, or at least originally, as sets. You'll find random hand/finger prints that weren't bothered to be fixed which I am guessing is the result of being taken out of a slip or injection mold, as well as some often quite crude cutting and carving marks. Typically they are larger in size – more in the 300-500ml or even bigger range, often with an infuser basket, though smaller ones were made in designs other than the Begonia, they just don't seem to show up as often. Most have pretty bad spouts and just 3 hole filters. The lid on almost all of these older pots I have seen are also very shallow, they sit on a lip on the pot and don't really have skirts to them. No artist seals on these mass production pots either – just a 'made in china' stamp, and sometimes an additional number and sometimes the made in china mark is even scraped off or was never marked leaving the bottom blank. Compared to modern pots the colors tend to be lighter and the clay is rather different- more porous and rough inside to me, I am guessing this is in part due to a lot of the firing being lower.

I don't want to repeat such claims since I've never seen any definitive evidence or study, but it seems some vendors (probably with very limited success at least so far) try and make claims about older Nixing pots being 'better' due to the clay being 'cleaner' and are trying to create more buzz around these older pots, presumably to be able to sell them for more. I have no idea what the going rates and actual availability of such pots are in China and elsewhere in Asia, but in my experience they aren't too hard to find even in Europe - it is finding the good condition ones that just takes patience rather than money. A lot of it seems to me to be trying to tap in to people's general conceptions of and the history of Yixing. I will say though that in my experience so far the clay is different though. Again I think a big part of this seems to be from firing but could also be from clay processing changing since I have no idea what is any changes were possibly made over time. Part of the reason I make the firing assumption is because a lot of these older pots are more on the pale/liver colored side of things and don't generally tend to show as wide of a range of kiln change effects like marbling or darker coloration. Often they have the 'softer' sort of look I feel a lot of other under-fired pots in other clay types also exhibit. I do think Nixing's reputation for being 'muting' comes more from this production time period. I don't find my modern Nixing as muting as its reputation seems to be most of the time, just noticeably different than Yixing or porcelain with more emphasis on body and mouthfeel over enhancing aromatics. So to me these older pots with more porous clay and lower firing would make sense to be more on the muting side of things and to establish that reputation. An older pot like this is probably more desirable or interesting to someone who is drinking a lot more wet and 'traditional' stored and processed Liu Bao or other fermented teas. It would make sense to me that the local pottery would be made to interact well with the local tea which is both a product of and remedy to the humid environment. So, while this isn't vintage Zhuni or ROC Yixing, if you drink wet stored tea, or a lot of liu bao, or are just curious, it might be worth your consideration to pick one of these pots up just to try out.

Here is an article on a shop specializing in and/or using vintage Nixing pots and Liu Bao which has quite a few pictures of various classic designs. - https://www.sohu.com/a/279558026_598301 If you do some digging around on the internet you can also find some photos of other pots or sets that were designed and never made it in to manufacture, some of which are pretty bizarre proportionally and involve a lot of stacking...
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Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:23 pm

Here are a few pieces I have picked up. These are my two Begonia pots. The larger one filled to the brim is about 300ml if I remember correct, the smaller about 130ml and seems to me to be higher fired. If anyone can read the calligraphy on them I'd be curious what it says. I got lucky that these both actually have pretty good pours, though with the way these lids work the functional volume of the pot is lower than the actual size, and for example the larger one still doesn't sit totally flat and wobbles a bit if placed directly on the table. Very strict quality control standards... :?
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The cup here also originally came in sets of 4 lidded cups with a large bamboo shape pot that looked very much like a cheap take on the classic larger volume F1 Yixing design. The pot had a big crack in it so I'm afraid I don't have it any more. The jars are another good example of how crude and variable these wares can be- you can see the finger marks inside the pots where they were removed from the mold,. Of the 4 I have 3 are the lighter color and only one is the darker higher fired color.
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Here you can see the coloration differences between the jars and the inside of the two pots – the darker and slightly more glossy of the two jars also shows some surface bubbling from firing.
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Balthazar
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Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:11 am

Thanks for this interesting write-up, @wave_code!
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Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:23 am

Stuck at home with a cold at the moment and not much to do, so thanks to @OCTO for some encouragement let's add a bit to this now...

So to start here is an example of a begonia pot and 5 cups with case set I got a little while back. Standard quality with the English markings. All in all decent workmanship, good pour on the pot. As you can see comparison wise the appearance of the pot is pretty different from my other small begonia. Still working to discern how much of this has to do with possible different time periods or changes in clay and firing. The lighter one from the set I've found i really like for shu- it actually bring out some higher more tangy fruit notes.

Higher quality/artist grade examples.of these sets sell for exponentially more and the quality is pretty easy to discern with the handles being thinner and more refined, as well as other places like the button attachment on the lid and having a more glossy/polished finish and also typically having white infill on the carving. Such examples I've seen always have the Chinese marking as well as sometimes an additional artists' mark. That being said while artisan or higher end ones do tend to have Chinese markings on the bottom i have also seen ones with such marks where the quality still isn't significantly better IMO than some pots with English markings.
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Thu Aug 11, 2022 8:33 am

Here's my big UFO with lotus carving. This set for example has Chinese markings on the bottom. Came as a set of the pot and 4 cups with saucers as you see on the left. Forgive the condition of the saucer, I'm usually using it as a pot stand these days.
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OCTO
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Thu Aug 11, 2022 6:12 pm

@wave_code

Amazing insights and photos!! There are so much to learn.... so many rabbit holes to venture in to.. hahaha... Looking forward to learning more about Vintage Nixing from you.

Cheers!!
.m.
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Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:54 am

Thanks for writing. I find this old style nixing more appealing than the modern version.
The bird carving on the lid of the tray is quite nicely done and reminds a bit of carvings on some 60's Factory 1 pots.
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Fri Oct 28, 2022 6:19 am

thanks @.m. I agree! While I do like modern ones too there is something about these older ones when executed well is really appealing. The clay really does behave differently, and when its a good pot from a good batch I really like how it can get this more tiger stripe look to it as it develops a patina. I need to do some more seasoning on the cup you sent over to get it up to speed!

Case in point regarding the clay with this one here - one of my favorite finds. Its the only one I have seen like it, so far at least. I'm guessing the idea was to make something specifically for the Japanese market given the elements at play here- flat disc lid and round body like a Ju Lun pot, pigeon spout like an F1... often I find on the less well made nixing pots the handles are really bad- positioned kinda clumsy or too short/close to the body to be fully comfortable and balanced, and this one seems to have solved that by going long - though the general shape of the handle is very similar to a lamp shaped nixing I have, just better in execution. Just a two hole filter on this one. The fit of the lid and other small things on this pot are much more precise than on any of my other old nixing pots.

The bottom clearly had a stamp on it at some point but had it scraped or buffed off like I see on quite a lot of pots. Still haven't quite figured out when and why this happened- I had read something about this being done during certain times to avoid import/export difficulties. Maybe with different stamps being used for different markets a batch intended to go to one place would wind up being allocated to be sent somewhere else mid-process.
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LeoFox
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Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:46 am

So how has your experience been in terms of effect on tea?
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Balthazar
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Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:22 pm

I'm curious to know too, in particular how you'd compare the effect to modern nixing.
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Fri Oct 28, 2022 2:14 pm

While my sampling range isn't that broad yet to make too many comparisons with various types of yixing, I do think I'd say they are similar to zini in the way that it seems quite variable between pots. across the board though they do produce a tea with more body like modern nixing does. some seem more muting than modern nixing and I feel like this is where this idea of nixing being 'muting' comes from - but at the same time it is different... for example one of my begonia pots I feel actually accentuates some of the higher notes in some teas compared to my other nixing or yixing pots - I tend to favor that one for a lot of shu because I feel it brings out some more interesting flavors those teas might have beyond heavy/dark/sweet. I do think it would be a fair assessment though to say they do reduce some of the more 'off' elements of wetter teas. I've generally favored them for more wet stored teas though too because those are teas I tend to want more body and mouthfeel from anyway. When I make the same tea in these pots though as I do with my green label zini, I'd say both are muting, or highlighting, a different aspect of the tea depending on how you look at it. Recently I tried some older batches of Four Gold Coins - in green label zini I was pretty unimpressed and disappointed with the tea - same thing in my modern nixing and I thought it was fantastic. Unfortunately I didn't have enough of the same tea to do a side by side in vintage vs modern for that one, so maybe next time. It is a hard thing to put the finger on though - some teas I find taste better in my modern pot, others in one of my vintage ones. I think teas where the humid storage dominates over the sweetness to the point that it leaves an unpleasant aftertaste I def go with my vintage ones for such teas as it smooths them out in a way the modern pot doesn't.

I haven't tried much of it but my instinct tells me they are not the pots you would reach for though for something all about delicate aroma. But, without specifically testing it I guess I could be wrong- maybe I should do some experiments trying out young and dry stored sheng in them to see what they do - maybe the muting makes it drinkable :lol: . The walls on these pots tend to be very thick, so heat wise I do think they would cause a lot of grief for really bright and potentially astringent teas.

As for my older nixing storage pots I don't have modern ones to compare it to, but I will say that they will definitely absorb odors - so good for getting rid of undesirable storage notes, but not a good choice I'd say for a raw or delicate tea where you want to preserve the aromatics. I had some raw liu bao in one for a few months and it kind of killed the tea for me.
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Balthazar
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Sat Oct 29, 2022 8:55 am

Thanks, I have heard a similar opinion expressed regarding vintage nixing (generally somewhat more muting and less of an all-rounder than most modern nixing).

"for example one of my begonia pots I feel actually accentuates some of the higher notes in some teas compared to my other nixing or yixing pots - I tend to favor that one for a lot of shu because I feel it brings out some more interesting flavors those teas might have beyond heavy/dark/sweet"

Hmm, I have a similar experience though with my modern nixing pot. It's my favorite pot for young and higher end heizhuans because it seems to dampen the smoke element just enough and highlight the upper minerality and/or medicinal notes. The "muting" of my zini pots seems to behave a bit differently, though what ends of being highlighted and muted seems to differ slightly between pots within that wide clay family too, even when taking into account size/heat retention etc.
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Tue Nov 01, 2022 4:42 am

While I have to admit my overall sense of taste has been a bit off this week to begin with I did decide to do a little sheng experiment the other day using the begonia pot I usually favor for shu. I used some of a cheap Xiaguan tuo that while supposedly 10 years old has seen very dry storage so I usually pull it out and brew it at lower proportions just when I want something with some bite to it. In the nixing there was noticeably less astringency and the tea was much smoother. It did seem to reduce the huigan a bit too, but its not like it was a tea with a ton of that, or great complexity, to begin with. I've made the same tuo a few times in CZ clay as well, and while it also is slightly muting despite the thinner walls and smaller size of my CZ pot it felt easier to overbrew in.

So an interesting result, although only with one pot and I'll have to give a couple others a go to see how much variation there is, but it seems like these could also be promising pots for taming very rough or overly smoky and younger sheng.
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Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:34 am

One thing that still is a slight mystery to me with these clays is their patina and their original state... A lot of these pots i get are often in unused condition and are quite shiny and polished looking like modern nixing but rather uniform in color. After a percarbonate wash though they tend to get lighter and darker spots and turn flat and lighter overall in color. They don't feel waxed but i wonder if there is a polishing process or similar coating they got at the time of manufacture. It takes a while but after some use the nice tiger stripe style patina starts to come out. My modern nixing just tends to get water stains and that's it - not sure if it's a denser mix of clay or higher firing or what that does that.

For example the small bamboo pot i cleaned and is in very early stages of use so still quite flat and not so pleasant looking compared to the plate, which is quite polished looking and i didn't bother yet to treat and start from scratch.
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WhisperingFrog192
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Thu Mar 23, 2023 9:43 pm

It's neat how cheaply you can get these still because nobody's collecting them much. Picked up both of these the other day for $10/piece!
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