The eBay seller lukevecent has been discussed in TeaChat quite a few times and mentioned as selling decent Yixing pots. Usually very modern and made by young craftsmen but decent. I have purchased one from him and pretty satisfied though I'm quite a beginner when it comes to questions of clay quality, authenticity, etc. He also offers a number of pots made of zhuni starting at 65$. I thought to try one of them as for some time I'm looking for a decent yet inexpensive zhuni.
However, I read and hear a lot that it is very hard to find genuine zhuni nowadays as the clay is close to extinct.
So, what do you say? no chance that this is real zhuni? What is it if its not?
Here is a link to one of the pots:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/authentic-Chin ... SwQcJaHUP4
Are there any modern Zhuni pots?
Absolutely no chance it's real lao zhuni--it's a modern hongni (red clay). The clay still performs well but it definitely is NOT lao zhuni. Zhuni just means red clay anyway so that is what you're getting, technically! On forums we call the new stuff modern zhuni. I guess they perform similarly but the actual clay is completely different.
Thank you for clarifying this!tealifehk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:03 pmAbsolutely no chance it's real lao zhuni--it's a modern hongni (red clay). The clay still performs well but it definitely is NOT lao zhuni. Zhuni just means red clay anyway so that is what you're getting, technically! On forums we call the new stuff modern zhuni. I guess they perform similarly but the actual clay is completely different.
As Jay said, the pot in your link is made of modern hongni. Is there any modern real zhuni? That depends on what you call "real zhuni". If you mean very fine, high-iron clay with high contraction rate, there is modern zhuni, some from zhaozhuang and some from the little coal mines (xiaomeiyao). It is not the clay that lukevcent is selling though, it is not easy to find, and you can expect to pay $300+ for it, more often $500+. An example is here:ShuShu wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:52 pmHowever, I read and hear a lot that it is very hard to find genuine zhuni nowadays as the clay is close to extinct.
So, what do you say? no chance that this is real zhuni? What is it if its not?
Here is a link to one of the pots:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/authentic-Chin ... SwQcJaHUP4
- IMG_2023.JPG (139.28 KiB) Viewed 8717 times
Last edited by steanze on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There are a couple of points here that need clarification. There is still a distinction between modern hongni and modern zhuni, with proper modern zhuni being very fine and high density, mostly mined in zhaozhuang and xiaomeiyao. The proper modern zhuni is not completely different from lao zhuni, lao zhuni was also mined from zhaozhuang. However, the processing was quite different in late Qing (water filtration + wood firing), so even though the base material of proper modern zhaozhuang zhuni can be quite similar, the final result will not be the same.tealifehk wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:03 pmAbsolutely no chance it's real lao zhuni--it's a modern hongni (red clay). The clay still performs well but it definitely is NOT lao zhuni. Zhuni just means red clay anyway so that is what you're getting, technically! On forums we call the new stuff modern zhuni. I guess they perform similarly but the actual clay is completely different.
It is important to add that most stuff that's called "modern zhuni" is actually just hongni (as in the case of this pot from lukevcent), I have not seen what I've called "proper modern zhuni" offered in the western market. And a pot made of "proper modern zhuni" would cost several hundred dollars anyway.
Excellent conversation folks! Really glad I’ve gotten to read the info here.
I have a zhaozhuang “zhuni” pot. I am currently on the hunt for a Lao. I am not clear on how the difference can be told by sight. I’ve found that anything I find in pictures that could be a tell is inconsistent. Any pointers?
I have a zhaozhuang “zhuni” pot. I am currently on the hunt for a Lao. I am not clear on how the difference can be told by sight. I’ve found that anything I find in pictures that could be a tell is inconsistent. Any pointers?
Thank you steanze (insightful as always!)steanze wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:28 pmIt is important to add that most stuff that's called "modern zhuni" is actually just hongni (as in the case of this pot from lukevcent), I have not seen what I've called "proper modern zhuni" offered in the western market. And a pot made of "proper modern zhuni" would cost several hundred dollars anyway.
There are several pots at Tea-Masters, which many here believe to be reliable, which are marked as "modern zhuni".
(see this for example: http://www.tea-masters.com/en/yixing-te ... eapot.html)
In a post titled "Zhuni clay is extinct!", he also discussed the "fake zhuni's" and claimed that his modern zhuni's are the real thing.
Check this: http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2006/01/ ... tinct.html
He writes: "My Taiwanese potter had been cooperating with the former State owned Yixing factory for some time, and 15 years ago approximately he bought a big inventory of zhuni clay from that factory. So far, he has used up half this original clay. He guarantees they are real and would compensate 10 times the value of one teapot if he were proven wrong, he told me as I was asking the tough questions."
A lot of modern pots are claimed to be zhaozhuang zhuni. 99.9% of the times, they are not. I know very few artisans that work with actual zhaozhuang zhuni, one of them is Xu Jingen (his pots cost several thousand $ in the mainland), more recently another was Jiang Xiangyu, the workmanship of his pots is not as fine as Xu Jingen, but the clay is good. Charlie probably knows a few more potters that used proper ZZ zhuniBrent D wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:13 pmExcellent conversation folks! Really glad I’ve gotten to read the info here.
I have a zhaozhuang “zhuni” pot. I am currently on the hunt for a Lao. I am not clear on how the difference can be told by sight. I’ve found that anything I find in pictures that could be a tell is inconsistent. Any pointers?
I would be very very skeptical of the claim that a pot is proper zhaozhuang zhuni if it's not from one of those well known craftsmen. This is an example of a modern zhaozhuang zhuni pot by Jiang Xiangyu:
- TB1n44uIFXXXXanapXXDMAr_pXX.jpg (46.53 KiB) Viewed 8716 times
- laozhuni_modernzhuni.jpg (187.92 KiB) Viewed 8716 times
Last edited by steanze on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You are welcome! That's interesting about that pot, because to my knowledge Factory 1 did not use zhuni. So I don't know what State Factory the potter is referring to. Also, it's pretty hard to "prove" someone wrong on this... so that statement about the refund is not very helpful. Regardless of the claims, the pot in the link looks like the clay is quite nice, although one needs to consider the price... I am a bit surprised that the pot is claimed to be 20-30 years old, because from the workmanship it looks quite new to me (post 2000)ShuShu wrote: ↑Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:42 pm
Thank you steanze (insightful as always!)
There are several pots at Tea-Masters, which many here believe to be reliable, which are marked as "modern zhuni".
(see this for example: http://www.tea-masters.com/en/yixing-te ... eapot.html)
In a post titled "Zhuni clay is extinct!", he also discussed the "fake zhuni's" and claimed that his modern zhuni's are the real thing.
Check this: http://teamasters.blogspot.com/2006/01/ ... tinct.html
He writes: "My Taiwanese potter had been cooperating with the former State owned Yixing factory for some time, and 15 years ago approximately he bought a big inventory of zhuni clay from that factory. So far, he has used up half this original clay. He guarantees they are real and would compensate 10 times the value of one teapot if he were proven wrong, he told me as I was asking the tough questions."
Right, as steanze said, there IS still zhuni being mined, but it's different because of modern technology and it isn't cheap either. I would've thought it would go for a lot more than $300!
Depends on the level and reputation nof the maker as well. $300 can happen but it is difficult, usually $500-600+ even on the Chinese market
And there's mostly the xiaomeiyao zhuni around now, the ZZ was easier to find ~5-8 years ago, now not easy.Thanks, I'll take a look at some of Xu Yuefung's stuff! How does the new XMY/ZZ stuff compare to lao zhuni for brewing in?
Good idea
the new stuff (the good one) does pretty well. Not the same as lao zhuni, but I got excellent results. I still use my thin walled Xu Yuefeng zhuni for gaoshan fairly often even though I have 60s F1 hongni and Qing lao zhuni pots.Thanks, I just wish they came in 100ml~ sizes. Larger sitings aren't something I'd get much use of I think.
