Yixing advice

Teachronicles
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 am

Bok wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:38 am
That said, I just had a 40year old DYL, so anything goes… if one can afford it.
How was it?
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Bok
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:46 am

Teachronicles wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:40 am
Bok wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:38 am
That said, I just had a 40year old DYL, so anything goes… if one can afford it.
How was it?
Sadly I tried it before the shop owner decided it needed a reroast to fully awake…
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steanze
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:07 am

Teachronicles wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:07 pm
Bok wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:54 pm
Teachronicles wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:44 pm
Here's a 1960s hongni pot I recently got. As far as I can tell it's pretty thin walled, medium to high fired. From my testing so far it's very slightly muting compared to porcelain and really makes tea smoother. I would love to hear what tea everyone would pair it with. The pour is 12 seconds btw.
Pour is rather slow, so definitely some of the more forgiving teas like Taiwanese rolled oolongs. I remember Steanze saying a good alternative choice for Taiwanese gaoshan for a thin walled porcelain gaiwan is a thin walled 60ies or 70ies hongni :D
I thought goashan would be a good fit for it but I drink much more roasted oolongs, and would hate to see it get neglected. Side question, is goashan refer to only the greener variety of high mountain or just anything grown at high elevation? I figured youd know this bok.
As Bok says I think gaoshan would be a good choice. Gaoshan per se just means "high mountain", but it's usually used to shorten gaoshan oolong that is usually green or lightly roasted.
Aged puerh with good, clean storage would also be a good option. In terms of oolongs with a higher roast, the pour is a bit slow for yancha, and dark roast tgy has pretty aggressive roast so I'd prefer a zini for that.
You can't try a few different teas at the beginning. Just don't make a lot of high roast teas in it if you're then planning to use it for greener teas or puerh.
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MmBuddha
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm

steanze wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:09 pm
MmBuddha wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:21 pm
Resurrecting a bit of an old thread here, but I’m hoping to purchase a pot for Liu Bao soon, and would be grateful for some advice. For now I’m planning to own only one pot for this tea, so ideally it would do well brewing both more modern tea, and the occasional vintage Liu Bao from the 70s etc.

Pre and early Factory purple clay is off the table due to price, so I’m thinking my best options are probably 70s QSN, or green label zini, though by all means recommend other options if you think they’ll work better. I’m aware the former clay is generally considered more desirable for most teas, but I’d be interested to hear if that’s likely to be the case here.

I’ve heard from a few people that green label zini, while not necessarily the best clay in the world, can be a good match for musty, wetter stored teas. Liu Bao seems like a candidate here, but I’ve tried a limited selection so far. I’m somewhat undecided about the extent to which I’ll want the clay to mute aromatics, and whether or not the generally less porous attributes of F1 QSN (or so I’ve heard) are a better option.

In terms of size I was thinking around 90ml would work well for me. Any pointers on shape and filter (whether multi-hole might be desirable for Liu Bao etc) would also be a big help.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
In terms of clay among those options I'd prefer green label qingshuini. But later F1 zini is fine too, there are just some batches that are not as good as others so it depends a bit on the particular pot. If you can get heixingtu pot with a flat filter I'd go with that.
Thank you very much for your advice guys. I really should get myself an F1 QSN pot as it sounds like a great option for lots of teas. Have you found much variation in the quality or effect of QSN from slightly different eras, i.e early 80s vs late 70s vs slightly earlier? Perhaps that’s getting into the weeds but thought I’d ask.

I’ve heard the term heixingtu before and assumed it was a type of clay, is that right?
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steanze
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:31 pm

MmBuddha wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:09 pm


Thank you very much for your advice guys. I really should get myself an F1 QSN pot as it sounds like a great option for lots of teas. Have you found much variation in the quality or effect of QSN from slightly different eras, i.e early 80s vs late 70s vs slightly earlier? Perhaps that’s getting into the weeds but thought I’d ask.

I’ve heard the term heixingtu before and assumed it was a type of clay, is that right?
No, not too much difference, but there are a couple of batches of QSN, one darker, one redder and one kind of in between. Workmanship in the '70s is better.
Yes, heixingtu is a type of zini
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Brent D
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm

I think for many of us here in the west, these 70s pots are pretty much unobtainable. If you can manage to find them, the prices are way out of line (over $1000).
This puts the westerner in a very tough situation. From my reading, I have gotten the impression that Hongni after 1977 is not even worth getting. Zini is a bit better after this time, but still has a mediocre at best effect on tea.
So my yixing question is this: At what point am I just getting a pot for the sake of getting a pot and should save my money because it has no effect on my tea? At what period and clay type have I actually invested in something that is worth my time, effort and money? I can appreciate that the older it gets, the better it gets is a general rule, but from all my reading, If im going to buy a lazer label hongni, I should just use porcelain and save my money.
Teachronicles
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:24 pm

Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm
I think for many of us here in the west, these 70s pots are pretty much unobtainable. If you can manage to find them, the prices are way out of line (over $1000).
This puts the westerner in a very tough situation. From my reading, I have gotten the impression that Hongni after 1977 is not even worth getting. Zini is a bit better after this time, but still has a mediocre at best effect on tea.
So my yixing question is this: At what point am I just getting a pot for the sake of getting a pot and should save my money because it has no effect on my tea? At what period and clay type have I actually invested in something that is worth my time, effort and money? I can appreciate that the older it gets, the better it gets is a general rule, but from all my reading, If im going to buy a lazer label hongni, I should just use porcelain and save my money.
Sadly your right about a lot of things. Hy chen has been a good source of older pots for me, but as you say the price is high. He had some 60s pots available on his website but again, not cheap and I believe there all sold. Another issue with being in the west is lack of testing things like pour time, which I don't mind cause I drink very little yancha, which requires fast pour speed. I also don't mind a slower pour in general.

If your just buying for the affect on tea then your probably right, sticking with porcelain and spending money on better tea is probably a better strategy, but personally, I buy for brewing tea but also to admire the craftsmanship, collecting, and having something older than myself, from a different time in the world, is a big a big part of it.
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steanze
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:04 pm

Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm
From my reading, I have gotten the impression that Hongni after 1977 is not even worth getting.
some in the 80s is not too bad but a big step down from earlier.
Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm
Zini is a bit better after this time, but still has a mediocre at best effect on tea.
not really, zini from the 80s can be pretty good. For aged sheng, especially if it went through some wet storage, it is definitely worth using over porcelain.
Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:15 pm
but from all my reading, If im going to buy a lazer label hongni, I should just use porcelain and save my money.
yeah in this particular case I wouldn't bother
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ShuShu
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:29 pm

steanze wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:04 pm
Steanze, do you sincerely believe that there is no benefit in a hongni pot post white label period? That it simply adds no benefit to tea?
Note that I distinguish between the intrinsic value of a hongni pot as a piece of pottery and it’s instrumental value as a vessel to brew tea.
It seems that sometimes this distinction gets lost.
My old Subaru might be worthless comparing to your Porsche. But if it takes me to work just as it takes you so then it’s instrumental value is not nothing.
Now do you believe that a 90s hongni not even F1 has no instrumental value as a tea brewing vessel?
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Brent D
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm

It’s pretty well agreed that as far as clay effect on tea, that after 77 hongni is considerably inferior to hongni that came after it. Even White label is considered not worth buying by many
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ShuShu
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:18 pm

Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm
It’s pretty well agreed that as far as clay effect on tea, that after 77 hongni is considerably inferior to hongni that came after it. Even White label is considered not worth buying by many
Perhaps, but still to say that one is inferior to another, even considerably, doesn’t mean that the former has no value. And the same is true for what most people consider not worth buying.
My questions is whether there is *no value* to it.
Teachronicles
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:25 pm

ShuShu wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:18 pm
Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm
It’s pretty well agreed that as far as clay effect on tea, that after 77 hongni is considerably inferior to hongni that came after it. Even White label is considered not worth buying by many
Perhaps, but still to say that one is inferior to another, even considerably, doesn’t mean that the former has no value. And the same is true for what most people consider not worth buying.
My questions is whether there is *no value* to it.
From how I understand, when you get into later period stuff, white label, shape thickness and heat retention play more a part than the actual clay. I have a white label thin hongni that does fine with greener oolongs, and a zini that does well with shou. So I think shushu your correct in saying that there is value. Also there's exceptions with later period stuff, a good batch of clay, I think mostly with zini, but those are rarer.

Steanze, please correct if I'm wrong about any of that.
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steanze
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:32 pm

ShuShu wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:18 pm
Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm
It’s pretty well agreed that as far as clay effect on tea, that after 77 hongni is considerably inferior to hongni that came after it. Even White label is considered not worth buying by many
Perhaps, but still to say that one is inferior to another, even considerably, doesn’t mean that the former has no value. And the same is true for what most people consider not worth buying.
My questions is whether there is *no value* to it.
I would not say that white label hongni has no value. However, I would say that it would not be much better than a similar pot made of porcelain or than a porcelain gaiwan. Now, if you want a pot rather than a gaiwan for particular teas (which can make a lot of sense for example for yancha when you want to make a chadan), or if you find the shape/size you want, or if you like the aesthetics of the clay, those are all good reasons to get a pot. But I personally would not spend $120+ on a white label hongni, in my view it is not worth it.
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ShuShu
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:43 pm

steanze wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:32 pm
ShuShu wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:18 pm
Brent D wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm
It’s pretty well agreed that as far as clay effect on tea, that after 77 hongni is considerably inferior to hongni that came after it. Even White label is considered not worth buying by many
Perhaps, but still to say that one is inferior to another, even considerably, doesn’t mean that the former has no value. And the same is true for what most people consider not worth buying.
My questions is whether there is *no value* to it.
I would not say that white label hongni has no value. However, I would say that it would not be much better than a similar pot made of porcelain or than a porcelain gaiwan. Now, if you want a pot rather than a gaiwan for particular teas (which can make a lot of sense for example for yancha when you want to make a chadan), or if you find the shape/size you want, or if you like the aesthetics of the clay, those are all good reasons to get a pot. But I personally would not spend $120+ on a white label hongni, in my view it is not worth it.
Thanks Steanze. That makes sense.
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Bok
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:14 pm

Another thing to add is that although not ideal clay, at least white label is still real Yixing clay with no toxic ingredients ( hopefully) which is becoming a real gamble with modern pots, no matter how nice some of them are done.
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