What are some indicators of a good teapot?

mBR7Rpku
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Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm

What are some general indicators of a "good" teapot? For example, do any of these count?
  • Lid fits body perfectly - at least a sign of good craftsmanship
  • How fast the teapot dries after water touches it - shows how porous the clay is.
  • How fast it pours - Is a faster or slower pour better?
  • Putting your finger on the hole on the lid stops the teapot from pouring - I've read that this was considered a sign of good craftsmanship by some people, yet others say this is easy to achieve in mass produced machine made teapots.
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mbanu
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:49 am

It is important to be clear about what you mean. From the last point, it sounds like what you are asking for are some indicators of an exclusive teapot; this is different than indicators of a good teapot, even though there is some overlap.
.m.
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:54 am

mBR7Rpku wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm
What are some general indicators of a "good" teapot? For example, do any of these count?
  • Lid fits body perfectly - at least a sign of good craftsmanship
  • How fast the teapot dries after water touches it - shows how porous the clay is.
  • How fast it pours - Is a faster or slower pour better?
  • Putting your finger on the hole on the lid stops the teapot from pouring - I've read that this was considered a sign of good craftsmanship by some people, yet others say this is easy to achieve in mass produced machine made teapots.
Not really. There's so many variables. What makes a good teapot is usually a mix of esthetics, functionality and effect on tea.
- lid fit: All is ok as long as the teapot doesn't overspill too much during pouring, or the lid doesn't tend to fall off. It may matter if one showers the pot with hot water.
- how fast it dries: Which dries faster, porous or nonporous? Which is better, porous or nonporous?
- speed of pour: Depends on the tea, method of preparation, and how busy one is, sometimes pouring slowly and gently is preferred.
- covering lid hole stops pouring: The practical use of this is limited. It always freaks me out when the one teapot i own that is like this stops pouring because i've accidentally put my finger on the hole. :D
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Bok
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:05 am

Except pour speed, none of the above matter to determine how good a teapot is.

A fast pourer can pour slow. A slow pouring one can not be accelerated. Which makes a fast pourer generally more desirable.

How fast a pot dries does not necessarily indicate porosity. Other factors can influence that: shape of pot, size, thickness, clays heat retention properties, etc. No easy answers here...
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OCTO
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:01 am

mBR7Rpku wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm
What are some general indicators of a "good" teapot?
Does it brew up a good cup of tea?? If yes.... it's a good teapot.
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LeoFox
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:39 am

What do you mean by "good"?

From an engineering perspective, for any product, quality can be defined by setting ranges for quality attributes ideally with quantitative or semi quantitative measures.

Here is a non exhaustive spec sheet that i just came up with:

Pour speed w/ cold water
Pour speed w/ hot water
Pour speed w/hot water with X tea

How much does it drip from lid?
After one pour, how much liquid is left?

For X tea, after a first pour, how much leaf slips through?

Thermal retention curve relative to X. X being some reference standard like a porcelain cup or gaiwan.

Thickness of clay body.

Volume of pot

Is it glazed
Interior glazing?
Type of glazing

Firing proccess
Firing duration
Firing temperature

Clay source
Clay composition
Clay age
Clay levels of heavy metals and dyes
Clay porosity

Manufacturing process
Manufacturing location
Manufacturer reputation

If old, historical authenticity
Prior ownership genealogy
Repair history and process, including materials used

Adherence to specific form
Subjective reaction to appearance
Clay texture
Clay color

Taste and smell impact on water relative to reference
Taste and smell impact on X tea relative to reference

Following mostly depends on a combination of the above:
Current market value
Projected future market value



Everyone is likely to have different acceptable and ideal ranges for these quality attributes. As you can see, while some attributes seem more objective, like lid leak, they also depend on your skill and your level of tolerance. Others are very subjective, such as "appearance".

For example i think hagi ware is the ugliest abomination of ceramic ware possible. Others sing its praises

Some may argue functionality is not as important as "clay quality". Others may really just want something very fuctional.

Some want very old pots and don't care too much where they have been. If they were dug up from some tomb, im not going to use it, no matter how much it has been cleaned up.

It depends on what you want
Last edited by LeoFox on Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Tea Adventures
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:00 am

Curious to what people will say here. From what I have read (which is not that much), all the things most people want in a teapot don’t really matter. Like a tight-fitting lid, for example.
I have a late Qing/early RoC teapot that has no tight-fitting lid, but the clay is great. All depends on what you’re looking for.
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BriarOcelot
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:41 am

TeaDB did a video recently on teaware and linked to an article by MarshallN which talks about this to a degree. I found it to be a very interesting read and it's written by someone who owns a lot of teapots.

I'm not sure what people on here will agree (or disagree) with; but what you're asking could be answered simply (does it brew good tea?) or more intricately.

For me I largely agree with MarshallN's points. Lid fit isn't terribly important (within reason, it shouldn't fall off). Dripping is only really important when you're pouring for others etc. etc. I can live with a lot of things if it brews tea well.

I mainly look for factors that will help my brew, tailored to particular tea - so primarily:
  • what is the pour speed (NB: accounting for correct viscosity of liquid for the tea I'm going to be brewing)?
  • What is it made from? How thick or porous is it (if it's clay)? Is it good clay or bad clay (see MarshallN article)? That will effect the heat retention and heat loss. If it's an oolong you'll want something like a thin Zhuni as it gets very hot but it cools quickly (and that helps with retaining scent).
  • What shape is it? Shape is a key factor in design of any functional object. Can you fit your tea in easily? How will the leaves unfurl if it's a balled oolong or rolled yancha? Some people like using a tall pot for dian-hong. Or a flatter/rounder pot for puerh.
Some tea will need almost 'flash' steeping (in which case you might not want to use a pot anyway) a cheap gaiwan might do a better job. Other tea will be okay with a 10+ second pour. In general, like Bok said - faster pour is usually better.

You can see why people might use different pots for different tea. So, what tea do you want to make?

There is a lot of theory on clays that perceptibly alter the taste of a tea, so people will use Duan'ni for sharper stuff that they want to round off (young sheng) or Zhu'ni for very aromatic (oolongs etc). Myself, I'm not sure I believe it - but I'll keep experimenting.

'Does it brew a good pot of tea?' - is a much simpler way of saying all this. That it isn't going to poison you over time is definitely a nice plus.
Last edited by BriarOcelot on Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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steanze
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:17 am

Many properties can be good or bad depending on what tea you are making (i.e. clay type, thickness, shape...)

As far as general indicators, the most important are clay quality and firing (it should not be too underfired). Clay quality is the really important one, but it takes experience to evaluate that, there isn't an easy shortcut test. Use antiques as reference.

Things like lid fit and how fast it dries don't matter much imo.
DailyTX
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 pm

For functionality, antique and modern have different standards. For those of you who use antique pots, would you modify your antique pots to meet modern standards such as making filter hole bigger for faster pour, adding metal encasing on the lid skirt to make lid fits better, etc. ;)
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Bok
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:10 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 pm
For functionality, antique and modern have different standards. For those of you who use antique pots, would you modify your antique pots to meet modern standards such as making filter hole bigger for faster pour, adding metal encasing on the lid skirt to make lid fits better, etc. ;)
I disagree. Antiques can have extreme good functionality - but it’s not necessarily the lower end of the available spectrum.

Unless underfired, which happens quite often for the lower quality end, the clay on antiques is mostly better than new one. In my experience at least but then I did never spend 1K on a new one, so maybe those are brilliant, who knows...

Instead of modifying an antique and possibly breaking it, I’d rather adapt to the teapot and it’s requirements... that said slow pour has rarely been an issue for the ones I got.
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Youzi
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:57 pm

mBR7Rpku wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:21 pm
What are some general indicators of a "good" teapot? For example, do any of these count?
  • Lid fits body perfectly - at least a sign of good craftsmanship
  • How fast the teapot dries after water touches it - shows how porous the clay is.
  • How fast it pours - Is a faster or slower pour better?
  • Putting your finger on the hole on the lid stops the teapot from pouring - I've read that this was considered a sign of good craftsmanship by some people, yet others say this is easy to achieve in mass produced machine made teapots.
If you follow all these tips, then you basically bought a locomotive pot. (Modern, cheap, machine made, mass produced pot)

(hopefully you paid less than 400 rmb for it)

Only a fast pour can be useful in certain circumstances, but unless you do flash steeps, with high ratio, pour speed doesn't matter, you can compensate for it.
DailyTX
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Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:00 am

Bok wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:10 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 pm
For functionality, antique and modern have different standards. For those of you who use antique pots, would you modify your antique pots to meet modern standards such as making filter hole bigger for faster pour, adding metal encasing on the lid skirt to make lid fits better, etc. ;)
I disagree. Antiques can have extreme good functionality - but it’s not necessarily the lower end of the available spectrum.
@Bok
Some antiques can definitely meet modern functionality standards such as tight lid fit, fast pour, etc. I am curious what defines a good functionality teapot 100 years ago or even qing period? I noticed older Chinese tea drinkers would focus on how smooth the pour, the length of the tea pouring before the tea spread, how strong water flow, and balance of the pot, etc. Northern Chinese people like bigger pots, Southern Chinese people like smaller pots. I guess standards varies by region, type of tea, and other variables.
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Bok
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Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:50 am

DailyTX wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:00 am
Bok wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:10 pm
DailyTX wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 12:41 pm
For functionality, antique and modern have different standards. For those of you who use antique pots, would you modify your antique pots to meet modern standards such as making filter hole bigger for faster pour, adding metal encasing on the lid skirt to make lid fits better, etc. ;)
I disagree. Antiques can have extreme good functionality - but it’s not necessarily the lower end of the available spectrum.
Bok
Some antiques can definitely meet modern functionality standards such as tight lid fit, fast pour, etc. I am curious what defines a good functionality teapot 100 years ago or even qing period? I noticed older Chinese tea drinkers would focus on how smooth the pour, the length of the tea pouring before the tea spread, how strong water flow, and balance of the pot, etc. Northern Chinese people like bigger pots, Southern Chinese people like smaller pots. I guess standards varies by region, type of tea, and other variables.
Exactly what you already mentioned. I’d add a good pour-stop-pour control as sign of a functional pot. For southern style brewing in small pots that is.

I dare to say that Northern style tea drinking was probably a lot less sophisticated, more akin to what we call grandpa brewing today. Very little demands to functionality for this kind of brewing.
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TeaTotaling
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Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:41 pm

What are some key indicators a pot is under-fired?
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