Yixing

[Bok]

It's more a question of yixing what is it. I'm referring here to yixing teapots. Ofc many yixing ware was made before for other purposes other than tea drinking. Like ink holders etc.

I am referring to glazed teapots, what else would have been their purpose?

if it doesn't keep the essence of the craft.

By this you imply that an Yixing item should adhere to quality standards, which it doesn't have to. Or are there governmental regulations as to what Yixing ware means? Some products have that, for example the German beer purity laws. I am not aware that Yixing has something like that.

Mass produced, I mean locomotive, is that the term? And such...

A badly made and tasting Champagne, is still called Champagne.

[Youzi]

It's more a question of yixing what is it. I'm referring here to yixing teapots. Ofc many yixing ware was made before for other purposes other than tea drinking. Like ink holders etc.

I am referring to glazed teapots, what else would have been their purpose?

if it doesn't keep the essence of the craft.

By this you imply that an Yixing item should adhere to quality standards, which it doesn't have to. Or are there governmental regulations as to what Yixing ware means? Some products have that, for example the German beer purity laws. I am not aware that Yixing has something like that.

Mass produced, I mean locomotive, is that the term? And such...

A badly made and tasting Champagne, is still called Champagne.

No, that's not what I mean. It can be any garbage pot if it keeps the essence of yixing teapots which I stated. So full hand and half hand pots. Locomotive, slipcast, wheel thrown aren't.

For example mass produced half hand teapots like F1 are okay.

In that case, I'd say it's a glazed yixing pot (referring to the antiques you mentioned)

It's fine to glaze yixing teapots, but then that puts them into a different category. They'd still be yixing ware though.

[Andrew S]

What happens if we differentiate between "Yixing teapot" and "zisha teapot"?

Presumably the latter wouldn't really cover internall) glazed teapots or things made with completely different clay.

And if we limit the way in which it is made (slab versus slip-cast, etc), but account for some famous exceptions (1958), then...

Andrew

[Youzi]

What happens if we differentiate between "Yixing teapot" and "zisha teapot"?

Presumably the latter wouldn't really cover internall) glazed teapots or things made with completely different clay.

And if we limit the way in which it is made (slab versus slip-cast, etc), but account for some famous exceptions (1958), then...

Andrew

Well you can call it any way you like. Maybe I should've specified Traditional Yixing Zisha Teapots, if it makes people fee better. If you mean slipcasted F1 pots, they aren't true to the essence of Traditional Yixing Zisha teapots (yixing pots for short)

Those would / should be on the level of modern slip cast, locomotive pots. Maybe a bit more closer to traditional, since supposedly the material was yixing ore, just heavily modified, but I'm not an expert on how those were made. So let's say they are 60% there.

[Youzi]

I'd add this passage from Confucius, for philosophical thought, about what what I mean, by the essence of traditions:

A ceremonial cap of linen is what is prescribed by the rites. Today black silk is used instead. This is more frugal and I follow the majority. To prostrate oneself before ascending the steps is what is prescribed by the rites. Today one does so after having ascended them. This is casual and, though going against the majority, I follow the practice of doing so before ascending.

[Bok]

I prefer Laozi.

On could also argue that one tradition of Yixing is to mass produce pottery and export it to many places, by whatever method was most efficient, true to the origins until this day

It really is quite the pointless discussion.

[Youzi]

I prefer Laozi.

On could also argue that one tradition of Yixing is to mass produce pottery and export it to many places, by whatever method was most efficient, true to the origins until this day

It really is quite the pointless discussion.

in that case what's the point of this whole thread? If nothing matters and everything is whatever.

[Andrew S]

This is what happens whenever someone pulls their Wittgenstein out...

Andrew

[Bok]

I prefer Laozi.

On could also argue that one tradition of Yixing is to mass produce pottery and export it to many places, by whatever method was most efficient, true to the origins until this day

It really is quite the pointless discussion.

in that case what's the point of this whole thread? If nothing matters and everything is whatever.

Pointless as in that it is an endless discussion with no real satisfying answers, as Steanze pointed out.

I prefer the most common denominator in this case: Yixing is any pottery ware made from clay of the rough vicinity of Yixing by whatever method the potter or company sees fit. One might add: typically slab built and unglazed.

Seems to me that the vast majority of consumers basically adheres to something along these lines.

[LeoFox]

This is what happens whenever someone pulls their Wittgenstein out...

Andrew

Wittgenstein's poker

[Youzi]

I prefer Laozi.

On could also argue that one tradition of Yixing is to mass produce pottery and export it to many places, by whatever method was most efficient, true to the origins until this day

It really is quite the pointless discussion.

in that case what's the point of this whole thread? If nothing matters and everything is whatever.

I prefer the most common denominator in this case: Yixing is any pottery ware made from clay of the rough vicinity of Yixing by whatever method the potter or company sees fit. One might add: typically slab built and unglazed.

Seems to me that the vast majority of consumers basically adheres to something along these lines.

I believe we are on the same side here. Pretty much what I said before.

[Bok]

I believe we are on the same side here. Pretty much what I said before.

[olivierd]

I prefer the most common denominator in this case: Yixing is any pottery ware made from clay of the rough vicinity of Yixing by whatever method the potter or company sees fit. One might add: typically slab built and unglazed.

Seems to me that the vast majority of consumers basically adheres to something along these lines.

+1 (for what it's worth).
Unless the discussion deviates on to a semantic (mine) field, the mere name of "Yixing" refers to the location of the clay and thus the clay itself even though the exact same clay exists somewhere else. And if the history/tradition has been mostly unglazed and slab built with some variations, that is what Yixing is for me as a buyer. And I'd had the location is more important than the mere clay, since there are a few of them. Very much like Champagne, legally this is an "AOC" roughly translating into "Origin Guaranteed Designation" e.g. it has to come from this very specific place, anything else is counterfeit or more commonly called fizzy wine. Meanwhile Champagne is white, rosé, brut, etc...
I am sure many of you saw this already. If it's agreed this is all yixing art, the common element seems to be the body clay.
For teapots, because of the clay effect, and for the tea drinker collector category I suspect there is an obvious bias to restrict yixing to @Bok definition. I would look at it as a sub-division of yixing.

[Youzi]

@olivierd

There is yixing ware and part of those are teapots. Though that's the most famous category of yixing ware.

Historically what made yixing different is that they don't have clay. They have ore ( sedimentary rocks). Which they turn into clay, from which they are able to make pottery products.

Due to these circumstances they had to use slab building to make their products.

Later they decorated those products and made various shapes which are not possible to make by throwing for example.

Pretty much this is what makes it different than other pottery traditions.

[olivierd]

Thanks @Youzi, appreciated.
There are a lot of articles and videos presenting the transformation of yixing ore into usable clay, it's quite fascinating.
Slab building is not only limited to yixing, this is a common pottery technics as far as I know. So while it is the traditional yixing technics it is not unique in the ceramic field. If I'm not wrong that's called Itazukuri in Japan.
Yet I see your point, and somehow I would consider that because of that point too the clay (or ore if you prefer) and the location of the same is the basics of yixing ceramics and thus yixing teapots.
Let me know if I miss your point.