Yixing

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TeaTotaling
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:17 pm

Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:59 pm
For me, good clay comes purely down to its affect on tea. For me, in my experience, with yixing wares ranging from LQER all the way up to modern, including f1 60s, 70s, 80s, and white label, excluding laser label. I have found that most prominent effect I notice is textural, with actually a modern zhuni being the most pronounced and then 60s and 70s hongni. Some zini clays I've found to be close to 60s, 70s, hongni, but the effect being more thickening than smoothing. Based on this, I look at the clays which make very nice tea and inspect their visual characteristics. I think it is general consensus (is that even possible in the yixing world? :lol:) that the clay of the earlier f1 eras were more pure, and higher quality than the later eras. If we believe that, we can look at their texture and physical clay character to establish some sort of idea of what a good clay might look like.

Idk really how to explain it, other than it just takes a certain amount of experience and seeing, handling, and using pots, but you can get an eye for whether a pots clay is good or not. I guess a very easy example is look at F1 white label hongni and 60s hongni, they are visually quite different, and once you have one of both, and brew with them, brewing performance (textural effect by my definition), you can see that white label is clearly inferior.
+5 👍🏼 👍🏼

What's in the cup doesn't lie 🌱 🍵. Experimentation leads to experience, which leads to enlightenment.
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pantry
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:12 pm

@TeaTotaling I agree that truth can hurt, and I prefer to know it. However, we can still be positive while conveying the truth. I've been told nicely that my tuition pot, similar to what YS sells as QSN, is in fact a grouting pot :?. My feeling was not hurt one bit! On the other hand, I can only imagine some members' frustration at the stroke that @Mark-S persistently prefers :lol:

By the way, did you receive all your pots from CP? Can we expect to read some comparisons with antiques soon? ;)
I find my diamond pot dulled the taste of water a bit, although it thickens the soup the most. Not sure if it's because I recently rinsed the inside with baking soda, and have yet neutralized it with vinegar the way @Victoria outlined in another thread.

As for my duanni pot, I have success with nutty green tea and aged sheng. It's not bad with younger sheng but does change the tea's profile quite a bit. No comments on shou because the staining bothers me too much :lol: . Doesn't help that I don't like drinking shou at home. When I do, I might opt for a jiang po ni. The porosity of that clay is remarkable!
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TeaTotaling
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:52 pm

@pantry Understood, point well taken ⭐️

I have not received my full allotment from CP yet. However, I have received my Silver Grade Teapot and Bronze Grade Kettle. Being Zini, I can only compare it to the one antique Zini I have, which could be different from the next antique Zini.

Right off the rip, yes CP's Silver Grade is noticeably muting, but I have found it really sweetens my water, while adding extra body. @pantry Is your Diamond Grade Teapot well seasoned yet, or not quite? I feel once this clay is well seasoned, it will be next level! The liquor already shines in a unique way. I can only imagine what it will turn into once it starts giving back. My Bronze Grade Kettle adds a noticeable thickness and smoothness to my already mineral rich spring water. Again, over time, I feel it can only get better with spring water seasoning. Currently, very happy with CP's offerings 💎 🥇 🥈 🥉

Comparing the Silver Grade CP Zini to my antique Zini has been fun, and eye opening. They are both so different. The antique Zini I have been using for Aged Sheng, but I have tried it with Young Sheng as well. It produces such a refined, balanced brew...sooo enjoyable. Honestly, this is the teapot I have been reaching for the most! It maintains the overall character of the tea without taking anything away, all the while improving the tea as a whole. Extremely satisfied.
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TeaTotaling
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:04 pm

@pantry I have found that as well, in regards to Duanni's porosity! From looking at the inside of my Duanni, It wouldn't seem very porous to the naked eye, but the sudden aroma catching qualities at this stage in the game have lead me to reevaluate. Like @Bok noted, older Duanni could be under-fired. I think this is very true of my 80's Duanni. So far, I'm loving it! The last 90's Shou I brewed was super thick and sweet, very desert like.
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Bok
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:36 pm

Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:59 pm
For me, good clay comes purely down to its affect on tea. For me, in my experience, with yixing wares ranging from LQER all the way up to modern, including f1 60s, 70s, 80s, and white label, excluding laser label. I have found that most prominent effect I notice is textural, with actually a modern zhuni being the most pronounced and then 60s and 70s hongni. Some zini clays I've found to be close to 60s, 70s, hongni, but the effect being more thickening than smoothing. Based on this, I look at the clays which make very nice tea and inspect their visual characteristics. I think it is general consensus (is that even possible in the yixing world? :lol:) that the clay of the earlier f1 eras were more pure, and higher quality than the later eras. If we believe that, we can look at their texture and physical clay character to establish some sort of idea of what a good clay might look like.

Idk really how to explain it, other than it just takes a certain amount of experience and seeing, handling, and using pots, but you can get an eye for whether a pots clay is good or not. I guess a very easy example is look at F1 white label hongni and 60s hongni, they are visually quite different, and once you have one of both, and brew with them, brewing performance (textural effect by my definition), you can see that white label is clearly inferior.
I think the above is a very good start to get closer to what good clay means. Unfortunately there is a lot of experience and handling of pots involved rather than a check list that can be easily worked down... for me it was that and the cross check with how it brews tea. It is yet another frustrating aspect for the beginner of Yixing.

And the term good clay is definitely thrown around quite loosely by many, even when the clay is not.
Which may be the lack of exposure to good clay to know the difference.

In terms of patina development, 1-2 weeks of regular use and a good clay will show some shine.
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pantry
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:39 pm

@TeaTotaling I've been using mine for over a year now, so it should be seasoned somewhat. The diamond grade is less muting than bronze and silver, and thickens the soup more. My experience with my CP pots is that they don't need much seasoning to start performing. Water becomes noticeably sweeter (though not nearly as much as by a chagama). I only noticed the dullness in the diamond recently because I had more time to do water comparison at home. Perhaps it's a classic case of too much thinking, not enough drinking :lol:. My conclusion, however, is the silver grade is the best cost performance clay from their range.

Regarding porosity, I meant of Jiang po ni. Duanni is quite porous as well. I'm not sure if porosity is something that you can visually discern, but if you pour warm water into a dry pot, you can hear the sound of water dancing louder on a more porous clay!
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Bok
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Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:28 pm

@TeaTotaling I’m glad your experience matches mine, I have found antique Zini/Zisha vastly superior in how it brews tea, compared to vintage or modern one. I had almost given up on Zini, when I only had 80s and newer at my disposal, it did only slightly improve mediocre roasted teas, but was a joy killer for most other teas.

Antique Zini is very good with many teas, be they green-ish, roast or aged. I love them with Dongding and similar teas.

Duanni has been very good with Gaoshan for my taste preferences.
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OCTO
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:07 am

@pantry
@TeaTotaling

From my own experience, DuanNi has always been a very versatile and yet very unpredictable clay. I have experienced DuanNi staining black and giving me a scare of my life... hahahaha...

On the other hand, DuanNi have given me many good experiences with Puerh, Oolong and some green tea as well. Tu-hei or vomit-black as @Bok mentioned earlier will appear on your put as blotches of black stains. It's almost impossible to remove them completely. So far my success with DuanNi / Shou Puerh are when teas are not left steeping or sitting idle in the pot for extended periods of time. Rinse the pot clean immediate after your tea session.

Do explore with different types of tea. Many avoid trying with darker coloured tea due to the ugly stain it leaves behind. But no harm "dedicating one" to tame the curious cat tugging at the back of our mind... hahaha....

Cheers!
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Youzi
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:43 am

Zhuni Patina Development:

During 17 days. Slight difference in color due to light temperature. The pot is orange color. Pictures are from the same time of the day, with natural indirect light.
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May 27. Day 1.
May 27. Day 1.
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May 28. Day 2.
May 28. Day 2.
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June 12. Day 17.
June 12. Day 17.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:49 am

@Youzi Coming along very nicely! Looks like you are putting in some quality teatime. What have you been brewing in it?
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Youzi
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:53 am

TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:49 am
Youzi Coming along very nicely! Looks like you are putting in some quality teatime. What have you been brewing in it?
Usually Yancha, but Pu'er is also good in it. It has the qualities you'd expect from a Zhuni, Preserves aroma, slightly reduces bitterness astringency, while giving a stronger, more intense body/taste.
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OCTO
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:17 pm

Youzi wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:53 am
TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:49 am
Youzi Coming along very nicely! Looks like you are putting in some quality teatime. What have you been brewing in it?
Usually Yancha, but Pu'er is also good in it. It has the qualities you'd expect from a Zhuni, Preserves aroma, slightly reduces bitterness astringency, while giving a stronger, more intense body/taste.
Very nice.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:22 pm

pantry wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:39 pm
TeaTotaling I've been using mine for over a year now, so it should be seasoned somewhat. The diamond grade is less muting than bronze and silver, and thickens the soup more. My experience with my CP pots is that they don't need much seasoning to start performing. Water becomes noticeably sweeter (though not nearly as much as by a chagama). I only noticed the dullness in the diamond recently because I had more time to do water comparison at home. Perhaps it's a classic case of too much thinking, not enough drinking :lol:. My conclusion, however, is the silver grade is the best cost performance clay from their range.

Regarding porosity, I meant of Jiang po ni. Duanni is quite porous as well. I'm not sure if porosity is something that you can visually discern, but if you pour warm water into a dry pot, you can hear the sound of water dancing louder on a more porous clay!
Good to know, thank you for sharing 🙂

I agree, the clay seems very performance ready out of the gates. I’m wondering if a little seasoning over time might balance out the muting. To the point where you can just pour boiling water into the pot and taste the collection of teas you have enjoyed over time. I notice the clay to be highly absorbable.

I have finally been able to locate my package and it should arrive by Wednesday. I’ll have some fun and lineup my antique Zini, CP Diamond Zini, and my Zini by Master Ying Chunfang. I’ll test a Sheng I am familiar with and report back with my analysis.

I’ll also be able to compare 60s Hongni against Modern Zhao Zhuang Hongni. Looking forward to that as well.

I have no comparison, but I can confidently say that my antique Zhuni performs exceptionally well with Yancha. Simply sublime.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 pm

Youzi wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:53 am
TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:49 am
Youzi Coming along very nicely! Looks like you are putting in some quality teatime. What have you been brewing in it?
Usually Yancha, but Pu'er is also good in it. It has the qualities you'd expect from a Zhuni, Preserves aroma, slightly reduces bitterness astringency, while giving a stronger, more intense body/taste.
Very good! Zhuni and Yancha are the perfect match, in my opinion. Always a special moment when enjoying this combination.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:51 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:28 pm
TeaTotaling I’m glad your experience matches mine, I have found antique Zini/Zisha vastly superior in how it brews tea, compared to vintage or modern one. I had almost given up on Zini, when I only had 80s and newer at my disposal, it did only slightly improve mediocre roasted teas, but was a joy killer for most other teas.

Antique Zini is very good with many teas, be they green-ish, roast or aged. I love them with Dongding and similar teas.

Duanni has been very good with Gaoshan for my taste preferences.
Good to know I’m on the right track! It has been a joy to use.

Now I know where this antique trail can lead. @Balthazar summed it up well. Although, I prefer to cast this enjoyment in a more positive light.
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