Yixing

[wave_code]

Money.

Traditional methods are more labour and time intensive, more costs that the end-consumer might care little about and is not willing to pay for. Easy to forget that the Western Yixing market is but a little tiny niche of the overall market, so for the studios probably easy to ignore, especially as this is the market which is the least willing to pay top money for teaware.

I don't see this being an issue. YZG and Yinchen both sell pots with clay processed in a hand-powered stone mills, and these pots are not much more expensive than their pots processed in a modern way. YZG has even posted videos of them using one of the aforementioned stone mills. Furthermore, I think that the idea that the western market is not willing to pay top money for teaware is simply not true. If this was the case, we would all be buying yixing from amazon or ebay, and YZG wouldn't be selling pots made by Senior Master of Arts and Crafts and Nationaly Certified Research-level Senior Master of Arts and Crafts.

Well it depends on the definition of top money. From personal observation, for most Westerners the limit for what they are willing to spend for quality teaware is around 500$, which is far from what are considered premium teapots in Asia. Not saying below priced are not good pots, far from it, but definitely not the upper segment.

As far as traditional processing in modern pots, as nice as videos and claims are, I am as sceptical as I would be with “1000y old tree-wild tea” and the like. Nice stories but hard to verify. Might be true, might be not. Might be done, but not necessarily with the pot that you are getting in the end.

The failure rate for many of the old techniques was quite high, which makes it less attractive to pursue nowadays. Take black bones firing in Zhuni. An accident of old, some studios tried to replicate it, with only very few pieces surviving it, so it was abandoned in the end...

Processing, clay, everything else aside here I would urge caution and take a step back from what I think is a slippery slope here with generalizing statements about east, west, and willingness to pay for things. at risk of brushing up against something that has for the better not surfaced much on this forum to me things like this really start dancing around my nerves in regards to class and economic status.

first I think a big consideration is access here- both to knowledge and to product in that many people in the west may not have the knowledge to make higher end pot purchases, or if they do and have the means may not know who/where to contact to make higher end purchases. but even if the desire is there without traveling I think one is unlikely to find many extremely high end pots available in say North America or Europe (maybe I'm dead wrong here though) and I think anyone who is in the know is going to have serious thoughts about spending $500+ on a pot they haven't at least seen in person.

beyond that though and what is giving me pause here a bit here is while I know the market exists, and perhaps this is my own ignorance of what portion of their income average people in asian countries or even other people here are willing to spend on tea, spending anywhere close to $500 on a pot, or even more has very little to do with willingness and probably a lot more to do with people's economic reality. while most people don't care about tea at all, I think its important we all keep in mind how relative all this talk about pricing is, especially on the high price and/or quality end of the spectrum. I imagine most people anywhere without extremely high disposable income levels don't buy $500 pots very often either, and rather that a collection of pots gets built up over many many years of luck, trading, selling, deals through friends, etc. my interest in nice pots and/or tea like anyone else's is tempered by my economic reality, and that this is a hobby and interest and not a profession for me. I don't feel hostile or jealous about what anyone else has - I get what I can that is of interest to me and within my means and I enjoy it very much despite the fact that what might be very average or uninteresting to someone else may be very special for me. but the inability to purchase teapots that for many people fall into the category of a month of rent, a mortgage payment, a student loan payment, or even maybe most of what they live off of in a month has absolutely nothing to do with their level of interest, passion, or willingness to spend on something.

I don't think you or anyone else means to make a hostile statement, and by that same account I'm not trying to drag my personal politics into a tea forum, but I do think its important we watch how we start to talk about these things less we sound like we are being dismissive to those who can't afford what is deemed sufficient quality by others or on the upper end for their means. we are talking about and sharing a passion for a niche interest here which is great, but I think we do still need to keep in mind how much some of this can have to do with socio-economic status as much as personal connections or passion.

I think for me a lot of what I am trying to say can relate to what @Balthazar is bringing up here too. The value of an object comes in many forms- sometimes that is age, sometimes it is assigned personally or situationally. I'm sure even folks here who have museum quality antiques probably have some pretty sub-par pieces they hang on to because they carry some personal significance.

[carogust]

first I think a big consideration is access here- both to knowledge and to product in that many people in the west may not have the knowledge to make higher end pot purchases, or if they do and have the means may not know who/where to contact to make higher end purchases. but even if the desire is there without traveling I think one is unlikely to find many extremely high end pots available in say North America or Europe (maybe I'm dead wrong here though) and I think anyone who is in the know is going to have serious thoughts about spending $500+ on a pot they haven't at least seen in person.

beyond that though and what is giving me pause here a bit here is while I know the market exists, and perhaps this is my own ignorance of what portion of their income average people in asian countries or even other people here are willing to spend on tea, spending anywhere close to $500 on a pot, or even more has very little to do with willingness and probably a lot more to do with people's economic reality. while most people don't care about tea at all, I think its important we all keep in mind how relative all this talk about pricing is, especially on the high price and/or quality end of the spectrum. I imagine most people anywhere without extremely high disposable income levels don't buy $500 pots very often either, and rather that a collection of pots gets built up over many many years of luck, trading, selling, deals through friends, etc. my interest in nice pots and/or tea like anyone else's is tempered by my economic reality, and that this is a hobby and interest and not a profession for me. I don't feel hostile or jealous about what anyone else has - I get what I can that is of interest to me and within my means and I enjoy it very much despite the fact that what might be very average or uninteresting to someone else may be very special for me. but the inability to purchase teapots that for many people fall into the category of a month of rent, a mortgage payment, a student loan payment, or even maybe most of what they live off of in a month has absolutely nothing to do with their level of interest, passion, or willingness to spend on something.

I sorta feel like I have no business posting in this thread but.... I 100% with what wave_code says. Many times I've been put off from buying higher-end teapots because I feel like I know nothing of what I am buying.... I am willing to pay for a nice pot or two, but not for a gigantic collection of subpar pieces.

edit: I'd not be so hesitant if I had more funds.

[Bok]

first I think a big consideration is access here- both to knowledge and to product in that many people in the west may not have the knowledge to make higher end pot purchases, or if they do and have the means may not know who/where to contact to make higher end purchases. but even if the desire is there without traveling I think one is unlikely to find many extremely high end pots available in say North America or Europe (maybe I'm dead wrong here though) and I think anyone who is in the know is going to have serious thoughts about spending $500+ on a pot they haven't at least seen in person.

A lot of good points made in your statement, I do agree with all of it.

Personally, I am just lucky to be in the right spot for both tea and teaware and even more lucky to have met the right people as well, which has been more important actually.

To answer part of your queries, you can safely assume that people in tea producing countries pay at least half or much less for what you'd pay in the West. But they also pay a premium for their Benz, BMW, Bordeaux or Gran Panadamo, that is just the nature of international trade and tariffs.

But there are a fraction of people who spend a lot of money on tea here, probably comparable to what some people spend on wine or other luxury goods in the West. Because tea in its higher quality form is and always has been a luxury. Same goes for collecting antiques be they teapot or other things. On the other hand people have no quarrels in purchasing expensive tvs, smartphones and other gadgets which have a comparably short lifeline, so in a way are actually a much worse purchase in the longterm.

Still, most people here won't spend 500 or more on a teapot or tea either, just the percentage of those who do is higher. On the other hand the percentage of those who would purchase a bottle of Mouton Rothschild is probably lower than in Western Europe

[Bok]

Many times I've been put off from buying higher-end teapots because I feel like I know nothing of what I am buying.... I am willing to pay for a nice pot or two, but not for a gigantic collection of subpar pieces.

That is the smart strategy to go! Don't buy what you don't understand.

[Chadrinkincat]

Chadrinkincat: I'm curious, did you end up getting one of the ROC pots from TWL?

Nope. I’m considering getting the chubby zini pot. I’ll probably take a pass and wait for a julunzhu instead.

And it’s gone. I didn’t buy it

[Balthazar]

Chadrinkincat: I'm curious, did you end up getting one of the ROC pots from TWL?

Nope. I’m considering getting the chubby zini pot. I’ll probably take a pass and wait for a julunzhu instead.

And it’s gone. I didn’t buy it

Bummer. Hope they have more ROC pots coming, and that a julunzhu is among what they release next (not that I am thinking of picking up one myself)

[nohwonder]

So I ordered a pot from Zisha Art Gallery. In this picture you can see a chip in the handle, which I assumed was the extent of the damage.
However, it just arrived, and that chip is actually a crack that runs all the way through the bottom of the handle . How safe is it to use this pot with basically just the top of the handle attached?

[faj]

How safe is it to use this pot with basically just the top of the handle attached?

I cannot say how high of a strain typical use puts on the handle. Maybe the top portion is already way stronger than required, maybe not. People with more practical experience with broken teapots may have a perspective on this.

However, what I can tell you is that the closer to the attachment point of the handle you grip, the less tension there will be in the handle. In other words, if you want to be careful, hold the top of the handle close to the body of the pot.

[OCTO]

So I ordered a pot from Zisha Art Gallery. In this picture you can see a chip in the handle, which I assumed was the extent of the damage.
However, it just arrived, and that chip is actually a crack that runs all the way through the bottom of the handle . How safe is it to use this pot with basically just the top of the handle attached?

Two questions in mind:

1. Was the crack / chip mentioned in the description at ZAG webpage?

2. Can you put up a close up photo of the crack?

Cheers!!

[nohwonder]

Two questions in mind:

1. Was the crack / chip mentioned in the description at ZAG webpage?

2. Can you put up a close up photo of the crack?

Cheers!!

Nope, they described it as "perfect". Here's the page: http://zishaartgallery.com/product/%e7% ... b6-za0065/
I'll try to get a good shot of the crack but I don't have a good camera so it might be a little hard.

[OCTO]

Two questions in mind:

1. Was the crack / chip mentioned in the description at ZAG webpage?

2. Can you put up a close up photo of the crack?

Cheers!!

Nope, they described it as "perfect". Here's the page: http://zishaartgallery.com/product/%e7% ... b6-za0065/
I'll try to get a good shot of the crack but I don't have a good camera so it might be a little hard.

Personally I would ask for an exchange. Till date ZAG is pretty well established as a reputable vendor. I would give them the benefit of doubt that the flaw was overlooked.

Try writing to them. Probably @TeaTotaling can lend a hand. I’ve never bought anything from ZAG before.

Cheers!!

[nohwonder]

Here are the photos. I’ll send them an email and see what they say.

[Bok]

@nohwonder there also is always the possibility that it happened in transit to you.

Or another yet remote explanation that it happened due to extreme climate differences. It is not unheard of that furniture imported from Asia cracks and warps upon arrival in dryer climates...

[Bok]

That said it looks like a typical crack that happens from carelessly putting down the pot on a tea boat... seen these a lot. Have a lot of them as well.

This position looks reasonably safe for future use in terms of stability.

I’d check the original sale pictures closely if it was there before. Hidden cracks in vintage pots can happen without being noticed.

[nohwonder]

That said it looks like a typical crack that happens from carelessly putting down the pot on a tea boat... seen these a lot. Have a lot of them as well.

This position looks reasonably safe for future use in terms of stability.

I’d check the original sale pictures closely if it was there before. Hidden cracks in vintage pots can happen without being noticed.

The chip that the crack appears to have developed from was definitely visible in the original sale pictures, I just didn't see it originally. My guess is that the crack developed in shipment, but still the pot shouldn't have been labeled as "perfect" with a chip like that in my opinion. I think it's probably fine to use, but I might try putting some epoxy or something around the crack to stabilize it if I end up keeping it. I'm not too worried about the aesthetics of it or anything, I just don't want to worry about the handle breaking while I'm using it.