Yixing

[Bok]

@OCTO what can I say, it consistently performs above average with oolongs of all kinds, even among 60s Hongni, this one seems to come from an even better batch.

[.m.]

and that you’d just be looking at plain shuiping pots, disregarding things such as size and the condition the pots are in to rule out other factors influencing pricing.

I think if you are after a 'user' pot and not a 'collector' pot, then these are precisely some of the things that can work in your favor the biggest way in lowering the price: a little chip somewhere, a wobbly lid, a bit sloppy craftsmanship, common size, early 70s rather than early 60s, ...
Other question is the discerning capacity of your palate, personally I am not sure that I can taste much difference between early 60s hongni, niangao clay, and white label hongni (perhaps should try a side by side soon) ... On the other hand water quality and water kettle have an order of magnitude bigger influence ...

[OCTO]

Hello @tehtawar... awesome questions!! I'd guess we are at least neighbours within the region one way or another.

I'm answering purely from my limited viewpoint and don't specifically represent any individual or group.

Do you think that it can be reasonably argued that there are certain Yixing age ranges you should skip because they’re not worth it generally, compared to a run of the mill contemporary pot, or because of diminishing returns, and that there are ranges that you think people should save up for instead of buying something cheaper?

I strongly believe the value of a pot is highly depending on the eye of the beholder.

For example (not real examples, of course):
– Early 60s: skip because of diminishing returns,
– 80s and later: skip because it’s when additives were added and you’d rather have a pot without additives (again, not a real example)
– 60s to 70s: buy this rather than early 70s.

Referring to your example (real or fictional) all three holds no value to me. If a pot brews good tea, be it of any era or make, it's a good pot. If I'm concerned over additives, probably half of China would be the walking dead by now. If I'm dead serious about 31 December 1969 and 01 January 1970, I would buy a DeLorean mod it and ride to and fro time and space.

What decade would you, people with lots of Yixing experience, buy Yixing pots from, and why?

Qing pots. Why?? Bragging rights.... Period!

Or: do you think that this is a question that is way too general to be useful and completley ignoring things such as wall thickness etc.?

These are extremely good questions which I have asked myself countless of times. There are days I can be utterly blatant to my inner voice that speaks truth to my heart and give way to my ego that is often victorious... hahahahahaha....

my 2 cents worth.

Cheers!!

[Bok]

Hello! I have a question for people with a lot of Yixing experience:
Do you think that useful statements can be made about Yixing pots made in different 20th century decades?

Let’s say you were standing in front of, for example, Zisha Art Gallery in Singapore, as in: a reputable vendor, to ignore sourcing and verification issues,
and that you’d just be looking at plain shuiping pots, disregarding things such as size and the condition the pots are in to rule out other factors influencing pricing.

On the ZAG website you can see that the vast majority of their midrange pots are labeled as hongni (plus a handful of “zisha” and maybe qingshuini)
and are from the early 60s, 60s – 70s, early 70s, 70s, 70s – 80s, and 80s.

Do you think that it can be reasonably argued that there are certain Yixing age ranges you should skip
because they’re not worth it generally, compared to a run of the mill contemporary pot, or because of diminishing returns,
and that there are ranges that you think people should save up for instead of buying something cheaper?

For example (not real examples, of course):
– Early 60s: skip because of diminishing returns, 80s and later: skip because it’s when additives were added and you’d rather have a pot without additives (again, not a real example)
– 60s to 70s: buy this rather than early 70s.

What decade would you, people with lots of Yixing experience, buy Yixing pots from, and why?

Or: do you think that this is a question that is way too general to be useful and completley ignoring things such as wall thickness etc.?

(To be clear, this is just out of general interest; I’m not standing in front of Zisha Art Gallery and not currently looking to buy anything.)

You’re gonna get as many different answers as there are ppl willing to reply. Short (and always despised) answer: it depends.

Mostly on the individual and their respective experiences and preferences.

Personally, I skip all of factory until the present, except the 60s Hongni. But that’s me and my preferences - and lucky circumstances.

[OCTO]

You’re gonna get as many different answers as there are ppl willing to reply. Short (and always despised) answer: it depends.

Mostly on the individual and their respective experiences and preferences.

Personally, I skip all of factory until the present, except the 60s Hongni. But that’s me and my preferences - and lucky circumstances.

Welcome to the rabbit hole!

[steanze]

Do you think that it can be reasonably argued that there are certain Yixing age ranges you should skip
because they’re not worth it generally, compared to a run of the mill contemporary pot, or because of diminishing returns,
and that there are ranges that you think people should save up for instead of buying something cheaper?

[...]

What decade would you, people with lots of Yixing experience, buy Yixing pots from, and why?

You already got some really good answers, that I largely agree with. I am 100% in agreement with OCTO's statement "I strongly believe the value of a pot is highly depending on the eye of the beholder." and with Bok's "it depends".

To add my 2 cents, you can approach this question as 1) a tea drinker who cares only about the tea performance and not at all about aesthetics and history, 2) a tea drinker who cares mostly about tea performance and only a little about aesthetics and history, 3) a tea drinker/teaware collector who really values aesthetics and teaware history, 4) a collector who cares mostly about teaware aesthetics and history.

If you fall in category 1, then a porcelain gaiwan will be mostly fine for your needs. F1 green label and earlier zini could give you somewhat appreciable improvements for some teas that need rounding out, F1 pre-1977 hongni could give you very subtle improvements for other teas like yancha, but they would be quite small compared to what you could achieve by buying higher quality tea. Very good quality modern pots with properly processed clay now are starting to get very close to the performance of the 70s F1 pots in my opinion.

If you fall in category 2, then F1 green label zini and F1 1970s (pre 1977) hongni start having more appeal, because the material is quite nice, they perform well, they develop a nice patina, and they bring an element of history to your session without breaking the bank.

If you fall in category 3, then the appeal of 1960s F1 over 1970s starts to make sense, while the material of the 1960s pots is not substantially superior to the early 1970s pieces, the craftsmanship is quite a bit finer. If you have developed an eye for that and you care, the difference begins to be worth the price (it is subjective of course, but it can be worth it).

If you fall in category 4, then you might want a few factory pieces as examples of that historical period, but you might get really interested in full handmade teapots that reflect to a greater extent the individual differences in the aesthetic sensibility of different artists, especially if they exemplify the aesthetic preferences of a particular period or style or some unique creative idea. These may sometimes be impractical for daily gongfu brewing for one person, because in several periods top craftsmen tended to work on relatively larger pots, that allowed for more space to realize nuances of construction. But I do know some people who use such pots on a regular basis with excellent results (@OCTO ).

Any of the 4 goals above is totally reasonable. For me personally, I don't often buy new pots these days as I am reasonably satisfied with my pots for making tea; if I am tempted by something it usually falls under category 4. So it could be any decade (and might be Yixing or other things including Japanese wares), but it'll depend on how interesting I find it.

[WhisperingFrog192]

I think my interest is more in 'unglazed stoneware' in general over just Yixing. It just so happens that Yixing is most of the market. Couple new pieces! Some I'm more sure and others I'm less sure about.

[WhisperingFrog192]

Seemingly, an LQER kettle. But I'm uncertain of wares from this era and leery of fakes.

[WhisperingFrog192]

Sadly, cracked. It's only part way through one of the walls, so maybe staples could suitably repair it.

[WhisperingFrog192]

Similar to the previous, but clay isn't as good and (I presume) later in manufacture. The other pot seems to be heini/black star zini.

[steanze]

I think my interest is more in 'unglazed stoneware' in general over just Yixing. It just so happens that Yixing is most of the market. Couple new pieces! Some I'm more sure and others I'm less sure about.

That pot with the crack has very nice clay! Looks 50s.
Yes, I am interested in teaware aesthetics more generally, mostly teapots but not only Yixing. For instance Tokoname and Bizen have some very nice unglazed stonewares as well.

[tehtawar]

I think if you are after a 'user' pot and not a 'collector' pot, then these are precisely some of the things that can work in your favor the biggest way in lowering the price: a little chip somewhere, a wobbly lid, a bit sloppy craftsmanship, common size, early 70s rather than early 60s, ...
Other question is the discerning capacity of your palate, personally I am not sure that I can taste much difference between early 60s hongni, niangao clay, and white label hongni (perhaps should try a side by side soon) ... On the other hand water quality and water kettle have an order of magnitude bigger influence ...

Yeah, I was just thinking about these “age brackets” because they almost seem like subcategories. I don’t think I would actually be good at discerning the influence of a pot on tea at all, where it can be perceived. I do have a cheap simple micro pot I randomly picked up in Singapore years ago because I liked the way it looked where it’s obvious that it negatively affects taste.

[tehtawar]

I'd guess we are at least neighbours within the region one way or another.

Not since a long time ago, but I do return to SEA regularly to visit family

Qing pots. Why?? Bragging rights.... Period!

If we’re going further back… what I’d love to own the most is some Jian, Jizhou or black Ding ware
Thanks for your input!

[tehtawar]

You’re gonna get as many different answers as there are ppl willing to reply. Short (and always despised) answer: it depends.

Mostly on the individual and their respective experiences and preferences.

Personally, I skip all of factory until the present, except the 60s Hongni. But that’s me and my preferences - and lucky circumstances.

Yes, of course. I’m not looking for definite answers, I’m just interested in how people explain their preferences.
Is your preference for earlier pots / 60s pots based on influencing the brew and / or craftsmanship?

[tehtawar]

[…]

Thank you for your detailed reasoning!