Yixing

Chadrinkincat
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:32 pm

@TeaTotaling
Zisha porn!

Hows that F1 duanni pot working out?
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:43 pm

Bok wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:39 am
TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:21 am

Regarding the magnetism, is this due to a higher iron content? I have heard black bones mentioned before, but I am not too familiar with the reference. Is this a desirable quality?
Thanks! Mine is 125ml as well! I’ve seen a couple of these at a friends house, all roughly the same size. But beware this type is famous for cracking! Especially the lid as mine is.

Black bones is very sought after. As I understand it, high fire and oxygen reduction at the beginning of the firing period change the clay properties, which renders it ferromagnetic. The common consensus is that these pots perform extremely well, even among Zhuni.

Yet, as this happens at the beginning of the firing there still is plenty of time to be underfired... I got an example of black bone but slightly underfired Zhuni. Still haven’t found a good tea match for it. So yes and no. As always Yixing stays confusing with no straight answers :)
Well, it sounds like we are all in good company, as it relates to this style of Zhuni teapot. I'm not sure how common this shape might be. I definitely have not seen many like it. It seems like it was made for Yancha. Do you have more information on your specific pot, as it might relate to artist or workshop?

Fair warning! I can feel how delicate this style of Zhuni teapot is...extremely delicate. Best saved for occasional use, and special sessions. The problem is, it brews Yancha so well, I don't want to brew Yancha in anything else. I don't drink Yancha daily, but I find I have been craving darker teas lately. Something about a skilled charcoal roast keeps me coming back. It has been put in rotation at least a couple times a week, but I digress. Self control and moderation go a long way. I should take my own advice.

Interesting points! My head began to spin 🙃 It's funny you mention this, because I have been wondering why I can see some black spots along the edges of the interior of my pot. I suppose I'll implement the magnet test, when I acquire some.

Regarding your under-fired Zhuni, what qualities point it to being under-fired?
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:47 pm

Youzi wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:03 pm
Bok
TeaTotaling

I think I accidentally stumbled across western literature on "Black Bone" called Black Coring. It seems to fit perfectly with the Predictability and precision of the times and the Dragon Kiln.
https://digitalfire.com/glossary/black+coring
Excellent info @Youzi! Thanks for digging up the old thread discussing this topic, as well! It was informative.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:05 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:32 pm
TeaTotaling
Zisha porn!

Hows that F1 duanni pot working out?
@Chadrinkincat Good to hear from you!

I love that pot! It functions very well, actually, despite it's rather unique design. It's walls are quite thick, and it retains heat nicely. It has some weight to it, despite being a little over 100ml.

Initially, I tried it with Shou, then with Green. Recently, I have found it works well with Dianhong, and other Red Tea. The thick walls and vertical height produce a rich, and viscous, cup of Red. I find it complements the sweet, malty flavors well.

I believe it's slightly under-fired because the clay color is not uniform. I remember @Bok mentioning under-fired Duanni can have a patchy appearance. I need to test it side-by-side in a neutral Gaiwan to determine if it's taking anything away from Dianhong. I wouldn't want to do a disservice to this wonderful style of tea, and Red Tea in general. It is amongst my favorites. Out of the gates, it has suited my tastes.
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OCTO
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Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:18 pm

Been in the company of these 3 Stooges lately .... interesting characters. One of the most intriguing traditional clays that comes in many characters and colours. Two are from the 60s and one from the 50s. Sizes are in the range of 400cc to 450cc. All three are thoroughly cleaned and seasoned for use. Currently using them to brew lightly roasted Oolongs. Ranging from High Mountain Oolong, DongDing, to DanCong, to Young Wild Abor Sheng Puerh.

Cheers!!

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OCTO
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:30 am

@alejandro2high
alejandro2high wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:24 pm
It's really difficult for me to try and make a cohesive statement about what makes a teapot good, or better, because it seems that so much of that statement is personal preference. For example, there is a very strong belief amongst serious zisha collectors that antique pots are superior to modern pots, but there really isn't much to base this statement on.
My sincere advise.... don't attempt to make a cohesive or logical statement in this regards. It's an on-going illogical debate that has been debated over the decades with no end in sight. It's akin to a journey down the Yixing black hole.... hahahahaha....

alejandro2high wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:24 pm
First, the build quality has improved immensely and any teapot from Yinchen or Yann is going to be built many times better than any antique or F1 pot. However, to this, antique lovers will say that the perfection of modern pots makes them lifeless and dull, but I have modern teapots with more attitude than some people I know. To say that a perfect fitting lid, or a perfectly balanced teapot, makes a pot lifeless and dull completely ignores the advancement of technology and skills that has made it possible for a well made modern pot to exist.

Firstly, I echo @steanze's sentiments on this. To add to it, we have to bear in mind, F1 consist of senior artists who are masters of their craft, all the way down to apprentices. Therefore the I would be very selective or specific when making a claim that modern teapots are built better than antique and F1 pots. The statement is not entirely true, nor is it entirely false. But it's a generalisation that can cause misinterpretation and misperception. The final output of a Factory1 teapot made by a senior artist will definitely be much better than a junior's mastery of his or her skills.

I agree with your point that advancement of technology has made it possible for young artist to produce stellar pieces.

alejandro2high wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:24 pm
Lastly, I know of several antique pot collectors who have never even brewed tea in a high-quality modern pot, but they are quick to dismiss them as lesser to antiques or even vintage pots. I couldn't tell you how many times I've heard the statement that any factory pot is better than a modern one even if from the late 80s to 90s. It's only been untill recently with the prevalence of Yinchen studio and such that this sentiment has slowly started to change.
Never dismiss a well made modern pot. My opinion is such that the nature of this comparison is inaccurate and inappropriate. A few very important variables are completely ignored and disregarded in this comparison. Firstly, the nature of current modern clay and antique clay is completely different. Secondly, the purity of the clay is again, completely different Filtration and Processing methods have changed and improved over time. If someone is trying to sell you "pure Zini" from the LQER period, a serious player should immediately relate that.... "purity" is an extremely rare occasion back then. Technology and Methods haven't reached that level of refinement. Thirdly, the way the teapots are fired is also completely different. In an era where electricity is non existent, "perfection" is a very relative expectation. But with modern electric ovens.... perfection is an expected outcome. I am very sure in current modern times, even with wood fired kilns, the advancement of kiln design would have optimised the heat distribution that resulted in a uniform and perfect pot. Finally, the criteria or definition of perfection has evolved with time.

The question here to ask is.... "Have our comparison evolved with time?" I too have came across many collectors and players who vouch for antique teapots and dismisses the newer ones and vice versa. My personal conclusion is that the driving factor behind their claim is not the age of those peices nor how well the pot brews, but rather the pride of owning antiques or modern masterpieces. Also bearing in mind having spent a HUGE sum of money, It's a bitter pill to swallow when a much younger modern pot or "old piece of gold" can out perform his prized possession. It's an EGO issue, sadly very prevalent in the Asian culture. Not really a clay or quality issue. If we are to see this subjectively, as long as the pot brews up a storm and sends you to tea heaven... it's an AWESOME pot!... hahahahaha.... One man's meat may be another's poison. Age is only a number.

I think I have bored guys enough with my 2cents worth.

Cheers!!
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Balthazar
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 am

OCTO wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:30 am
The question here to ask is.... "Have our comparison evolved with time?" I too have came across many collectors and players who vouch for antique teapots and dismisses the newer ones and vice versa. My personal conclusion is that the driving factor behind their claim is not the age of those peices nor how well the pot brews, but rather the pride of owning antiques or modern masterpieces. Also bearing in mind having spent a HUGE sum of money, It's a bitter pill to swallow when a much younger modern pot or "old piece of gold" can out perform his prized possession. It's an EGO issue, sadly very prevalent in the Asian culture. Not really a clay or quality issue. If we are to see this subjectively, as long as the pot brews up a storm and sends you to tea heaven... it's an AWESOME pot!... hahahahaha.... One man's meat may be another's poison. Age is only a number.
This is an interesting point. I also think there is something very human in valuing things that are passed down from earlier generations, an almost metaphysical quality that has little to do with "utilitarian value".

Here's a though experiment: Imagine we're a couple decades into the future and 3D-printers are at a completely different level than they are today. Making use of their superior AI and image processing, they are able to create all sorts of copies that are absolutely indistinguishable for humans from their original. They even do all sorts of clay processing and firing, not to mention inscriptions, calligraphy and painting. Imagine also that we still had access to the same clay as in the "golden days" (whenever they were).

If you were offered a genuine and outstanding exemplar of an antique pot, one of those absolutely stunning pieces you'll find in some national museums, or an identical 3D-printer made copy that no human could ever distinguish from the real deal (and with the same clay, processing, firing, and workmanship/artistic decorations), what would be your pick? (You're not allowed to sell it, by the way, so there's no monetary gain in picking the original.) I don't think many people would choose the copy or say they didn't care which one they got.

At the same time, I feel most of those who own antiques (at least in the online sphere, I know nothing about private collectors) are quite honest about this: Both saying they prefer the tea their antiques brew, due to differences in clay/processing/firing, but also admitting that a part of what they value is something that goes beyond the utilitarian and artistic values of the pots.
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Balthazar
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:52 am

@Chadrinkincat: I'm curious, did you end up getting one of the ROC pots from TWL?
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OCTO
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:58 am

Balthazar wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 am

At the same time, I feel many of those who own antiques are quite honest about this (both saying they prefer the tea their antiques brew, due to differences in clay/processing/firing, but also admitting that part of what they value is the historical and metaphysical qualities).
Yes indeed. Tea brewed from an antique pot and tea brewed from a modern pot is totally different. As in all things in life, there are always exceptions... There is no right or wrong in this. It all boils down to our personal preference. I have both antique pots and also modern pots of which I use to brew tea. Personally, I have discovered similarities between both and also differences that sets them apart, besides age and value. As long as we look at it objectively, physical possession is temporal... our preferred pot/s will change over time..... but friendship over a cup is much to be desired and deeply honoured.

Cheers!!
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Bok
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:24 am

OCTO wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:58 am
friendship over a cup is much to be desired and deeply honoured.
That!
Chadrinkincat
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:20 am

Balthazar wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:52 am
Chadrinkincat: I'm curious, did you end up getting one of the ROC pots from TWL?
Nope. I’m considering getting the chubby zini pot. I’ll probably take a pass and wait for a julunzhu instead.
Chadrinkincat
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:26 am

@TeaTotaling

Glad to hear it’s working out. Interesting that it pairs well with hongcha.
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Youzi
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:28 am

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:26 am
TeaTotaling

Glad to hear it’s working out. Interesting that it pairs well with hongcha.
I'm starting to hear more and more people liking Hong Cha in Duanni. Myself included.
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TeaTotaling
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:37 am

Youzi wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:28 am
Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:26 am
TeaTotaling

Glad to hear it’s working out. Interesting that it pairs well with hongcha.
I'm starting to hear more and more people liking Hong Cha in Duanni. Myself included.
@Youzi I'm glad to hear you have discovered this pairing, along with hearing from others who find it a good match.

It seemed unconventional, and I previously have not found any discussion of it. I was experimenting one day and found that it really suited my tastes, and paired very well. It seemed like a half-baked idea at the time, but I guess I'm not too far off my rocker 😅
faj
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Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:41 am

Youzi wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:28 am
I'm starting to hear more and more people liking Hong Cha in Duanni. Myself included.
What difference do you feel it makes in the resulting tea?
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