Yixing

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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Location: Ohio

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:37 pm

steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:32 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:16 pm

What would you estimate this pot to be sold for on ZAG? What would you say the price should be, in your opinion?

Also, I can see one reason the cost of a pot might fluctuate over time, and that would be the rank progression of an artist.

Aside from age and condition influencing value, would there any other reasons a pot's value might increase or decrease?
Prices are tricky, I prefer to discuss the artistry :)
They will depend on demand, and demand can change based on many factors
Understood, no problem 👍🏼 I kind of got that hint when I started hearing crickets, previously 🦗🦗🦗
faj
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:48 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:38 pm
anyone else with the experience...what are some factors which could influence the cost of teapots? Initially, I was curious why there was no price listed on ZAG for some, and now it makes sense that it can vary. I’m interested to know why.
I am not a person of experience with teapots. However the fact that prices can vary in time is not the reason for ZAG not listing them for some teapots. Websites are not printed catalogues, prices can be listed and also vary. As someone somewhat versed in commercial strategy (though not in retail), I would hazard a few guesses.

Prices that are hidden from mere mortals' eyes can convey a sense of exclusivity and reduce the buyer's tendency to negotiate (that "if you need to ask how much, then you are not rich enough" feeling high-end retailers know how to exploit to their advantage).

The level of interest may not be that easy to gauge when first listing the pot. Increasing the price because there are several inquiries on a pot looks greedy, and progressively dropping the price on unsold inventory looks weak. It is always best when negotiating to come out as less greedy than you really are, and more confident than you really are.

I guess there is often negotiation involved (just a guess), and not displaying prices could give them the leeway they need to hold several negotiations in parallel with various strategies.

It might be that the price will change depending on who is asking.

Whatever the reason(s), I assume ZAG is quite good at extracting the maximum amount of money from each pot while selling enough pots to maximize their overall profit, and that the hidden prices are part of the way they achieve that.
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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Location: Ohio

Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm

faj wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:48 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:38 pm
anyone else with the experience...what are some factors which could influence the cost of teapots? Initially, I was curious why there was no price listed on ZAG for some, and now it makes sense that it can vary. I’m interested to know why.
I am not a person of experience with teapots. However the fact that prices can vary in time is not the reason for ZAG not listing them for some teapots. Websites are not printed catalogues, prices can be listed and also vary. As someone somewhat versed in commercial strategy (though not in retail), I would hazard a few guesses.

Prices that are hidden from mere mortals' eyes can convey a sense of exclusivity and reduce the buyer's tendency to negotiate (that "if you need to ask how much, then you are not rich enough" feeling high-end retailers know how to exploit to their advantage).

The level of interest may not be that easy to gauge when first listing the pot. Increasing the price because there are several inquiries on a pot looks greedy, and progressively dropping the price on unsold inventory looks weak. It is always best when negotiating to come out as less greedy than you really are, and more confident than you really are.

I guess there is often negotiation involved (just a guess), and not displaying prices could give them the leeway they need to hold several negotiations in parallel with various strategies.

It might be that the price will change depending on who is asking.

Whatever the reason(s), I assume ZAG is quite good at extracting the maximum amount of money from each pot while selling enough pots to maximize their overall profit, and that the hidden prices are part of the way they achieve that.
Fantastic insight! Thank you!!

I have made a few purchases from ZAG, all of which didn't have a listed price. In speaking with an experienced collector in another country, I was able to confirm that there was not a high premium being charged at all. It was stated that this individual would expect to pay a similar price for what I got. This further reinforced the straightforward dealings I experienced behind the scenes. Good to know there is at least one reputable vendor I can trust for old teapots here in the West. From my research, I have not been able to find too many.

Thanks again 🙌🏻
DailyTX
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:43 pm
Location: Northern California

Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:25 pm

OCTO wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:50 am
steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:40 am
DailyTX wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:28 am
Can any senior give me some input about this lid? The inner edge of the lid has a texture that reminds me of under fired clay, what do you think? Any possibility that this lid was made pre-factory?
Image
Image
Good observation, this lid has a couple of features that are compatible with ROC. But, there are also modern replicas that get these details correct. It is hard to say without seeing the whole pot. If you are referring to the texture around the joint between the lid roof and the lid skirt, that texture is not the result underfiring, but rather a result of the way the clay was worked to improve the strength of the joint between the lid roof and the lid skirt :) You can see that the clay near the air hole at the center is "smoother", and near the skirt there is a circular tool mark that left fine lines impressed on the clay.
Agree with steanze. Good observation and input.
@steanze & @OCTO
Thanks for the input. I have a ROC pot that I posted last year with similar inner lining. I haven’t seen them in F1. So my guess was either pre-factory or 90s - modern replica.
faj
Posts: 334
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:53 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm
In speaking with an experienced collector in another country, I was able to confirm that there was not a high premium being charged at all.
It always feels better when we all get gouged equally... :D

I did not intend to portray profit-maximizing commercial practices as morally wrong. It is absolutely possible for a vendor to offer great products and services, and also use strategies to make more money. I would say that in a long-term perspective, it becomes self-serving to offer great products and services if you can make good money doing it. Successful business people, whether highly moral or not, usually are smart enough not to kill the goose that lays golden eggs by tarnishing their reputation.

I have no personal experience with ZAG, but based on what I have read here, they seems to be both expensive and affordable : sure, someone with contacts/access/knowledge could find gems at lower prices, but for a Westerner without local contacts looking for a few authentic pots, the alternatives to purchasing through a reliable source are unfeasible/time consuming/more expensive.
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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Location: Ohio

Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:03 pm

faj wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:53 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm
In speaking with an experienced collector in another country, I was able to confirm that there was not a high premium being charged at all.
It always feels better when we all get gouged equally... :D

I did not intend to portray profit-maximizing commercial practices as morally wrong. It is absolutely possible for a vendor to offer great products and services, and also use strategies to make more money. I would say that in a long-term perspective, it becomes self-serving to offer great products and services if you can make good money doing it. Successful business people, whether highly moral or not, usually are smart enough not to kill the goose that lays golden eggs by tarnishing their reputation.

I have no personal experience with ZAG, but based on what I have read here, they seems to be both expensive and affordable : sure, someone with contacts/access/knowledge could find gems at lower prices, but for a Westerner without local contacts looking for a few authentic pots, the alternatives to purchasing through a reliable source are unfeasible/time consuming/more expensive.
I didn't take it that way whatsoever, I was just doing my due diligence. I highly value the opinions of those who have gone before me, and those who are knowledgable. I know my role, a student who has just embarked on his journey. Although we are all students, some of us have been learning for a long time, and are well on into their journey.

Your insight into business practices has been very helpful, thank you!
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steanze
Posts: 632
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:17 pm
Location: USA

Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:27 pm

DailyTX wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:25 pm

steanze & OCTO
Thanks for the input. I have a ROC pot that I posted last year with similar inner lining. I haven’t seen them in F1. So my guess was either pre-factory or 90s - modern replica.
Welcome! Yes, it should not be F1
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Bok
Vendor
Posts: 3376
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:40 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm
I have made a few purchases from ZAG, all of which didn't have a listed price. In speaking with an experienced collector in another country, I was able to confirm that there was not a high premium being charged at all. It was stated that this individual would expect to pay a similar price for what I got. This further reinforced the straightforward dealings I experienced behind the scenes. Good to know there is at least one reputable vendor I can trust for old teapots here in the West. From my research, I have not been able to find too many.
I know a few people who have met the owner and confirm his reliability, he has a good reputation in Taiwan as well.
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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:08 pm
Location: Ohio

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:13 am

Bok wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:40 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:07 pm
I have made a few purchases from ZAG, all of which didn't have a listed price. In speaking with an experienced collector in another country, I was able to confirm that there was not a high premium being charged at all. It was stated that this individual would expect to pay a similar price for what I got. This further reinforced the straightforward dealings I experienced behind the scenes. Good to know there is at least one reputable vendor I can trust for old teapots here in the West. From my research, I have not been able to find too many.
I know a few people who have met the owner and confirm his reliability, he has a good reputation in Taiwan as well.
That’s great to hear @Bok! Thank you for sharing!

That’s what I have been hearing from my sources, and the community. Mr. Tan has earned himself a good name.
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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
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Location: Ohio

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 am

@Chadrinkincat and @Mark-S, the pot in discussion that just sold went for $1,500.
Mark-S
Posts: 574
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:05 pm
Location: Germany

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:26 am

TeaTotaling wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 am
Chadrinkincat and Mark-S, the pot in discussion that just sold went for $1,500.
Thank you :)
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TeaTotaling
Posts: 246
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Location: Ohio

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:51 am

Mark-S wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:26 am
TeaTotaling wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 am
Chadrinkincat and Mark-S, the pot in discussion that just sold went for $1,500.
Thank you :)
Not too far out of reach from your max budget! All in good time.
Mark-S
Posts: 574
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:05 pm
Location: Germany

Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:56 am

TeaTotaling wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:51 am
Not too far out of reach from your max budget! All in good time.
Yeah, I also thought that, and it's still my favorite design. Hopefully, they will sell a similar teapot some day.
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pantry
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:34 am
Location: California

Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:59 pm

OCTO wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:51 am
pantry wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:34 am

What do you think of the ergonomics of the pot? i have difficulty imagining it be a practical pot to use due to angle of the handle.
It looks pleasing to the eyes but won't know how it feels until you hold them in your hands. Just like what Teas We Like said, this is a modern artistic pot that might be destined as a decorative piece rather than a practical piece for brewing. Basically you are buying a sculpture which happens to be a teapot... hahahaha....

Cheers!!
In that case I prefer the ginger pot I posted earlier as I could get a whip of old ginger just by looking at it :lol:

@TeaTotaling
@OCTO
Tested my benshan duanni pot on a traditional muzha TGY today. Not bad at all! It allows tea to be more forgiving to brew. I think my favorite tea on this pot is still a green. Wonder if I was influenced by the beautiful contrast of the light green and light yellow colors, which biased my judgement :lol:
Chadrinkincat
Posts: 667
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
Contact:

Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:07 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:21 am
Chadrinkincat and Mark-S, the pot in discussion that just sold went for $1,500.
My guess wasn’t wasn’t too far off. $1200
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