Yixing

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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:01 am

Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:59 am

Yeah, sure probably he was a "nobody" during the time he made that pot, but just because he is rank 5 now, suddenly the past works of the same artist just appreciates in price too. Kinda like the Early Works of famous painters. So as usual with these things the prices for named artist stuff just makes no sense for the Western Market, but in China teapot, just like housing and art, it's another investment scheme for the rich, which is the main reason for the sky high prices currently.
Yes - I think an early work could be interesting if it is the craftsman's own design and reflects in some way his artistic development. However, if it is a standardized design, it is more difficult to use it as a window into the artist's growth.
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:02 am

Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:53 am
That's basically the "Glue" Clay (Clay with more water), which is used to connect parts of the body during the full hand process. If you can see it, then it's not done well, not hidden well by the artist. I have a video of it, but cannot upload here, so you just have to use your imagination. :D
^^ this. It is often seen in ROC period teapots. But it can also appear in modern replicas, so it is not a guarantee that the pot is from ROC.
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Youzi
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:04 am

steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:01 am
Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:59 am

Yeah, sure probably he was a "nobody" during the time he made that pot, but just because he is rank 5 now, suddenly the past works of the same artist just appreciates in price too. Kinda like the Early Works of famous painters. So as usual with these things the prices for named artist stuff just makes no sense for the Western Market, but in China teapot, just like housing and art, it's another investment scheme for the rich, which is the main reason for the sky high prices currently.
Yes - I think an early work could be interesting if it is the craftsman's own design and reflects in some way his artistic development. However, if it is a standardized design, it is more difficult to use it as a window into the artist's growth.
I haven't tried to argue why it should be expensive or good. Just saying, that it's expensive because it's made by a rank 5 master, no matter the look or the craftsmanship or if it's an original design, it's only that expensive because of the name and rank of the artist.
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:07 am

Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:04 am

I haven't tried to argue why it should be expensive or good. Just saying, that it's expensive because it's made by a rank 5 master, no matter the look or the craftsmanship or if it's an original design, it's only that expensive because of the name and rank of the artist.
Yes, that's right - I didn't mean to argue with your point, I just thought it would be interesting to discuss in my view what makes early works of a craftsman more or less interesting :)
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Youzi
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:12 am

steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:07 am
Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:04 am

I haven't tried to argue why it should be expensive or good. Just saying, that it's expensive because it's made by a rank 5 master, no matter the look or the craftsmanship or if it's an original design, it's only that expensive because of the name and rank of the artist.
Yes, that's right - I didn't mean to argue with your point, I just thought it would be interesting to discuss in my view what makes early works of a craftsman more or less interesting :)
Yeah, sure, my analogy wasn't 100% correct in this context, just wanted to explain why a seemingly standard looking mass produced pot would worth so much, when it doesn't really make sense. :D
Mark-S
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:18 am

@Teas We Like

Ok, this makes sense. :lol: It's not that I always dislike modern art, but most of the time I prefer decorative items. This pot I'd also consider modern art and it's beautiful:

https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/cont ... ng-3/67013
Youzi wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:41 am
The artist is a Research Level Senior Master, that's rank 5, the highest rank one can get besides the Honorific Titles to Master. Teapots made by Rank 5 Masters go for 2-3k minimum in China, for "No-name" artists.
All right, thanks for this information. This is too expensive for me. 1k is the maximum I'd be willing to pay.

@OCTO

Imagine if you actually use this pot for tea and drop it accidentally. :?
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:07 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:18 am


All right, thanks for this information. This is too expensive for me. 1k is the maximum I'd be willing to pay.

OCTO

Imagine if you actually use this pot for tea and drop it accidentally. :?
That is very reasonable, 1k is already quite a lot. My suggestion would be, before you spend that money for a pot, do spend a lot of time studying a variety of decorated pots by different artists - even very famous ones, and even if they are too expensive. That will train your eye to better judge the pots you want to buy.
Chadrinkincat
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm

@steanzeI’m not a big fan of that design but it is clearly well done in my opinion. I’m curious to know how much that F1 pot sold for compared the original design you linked to.
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TeaTotaling
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:38 pm

@Chadrinkincat @steanze and anyone else with the experience...what are some factors which could influence the cost of teapots? Initially, I was curious why there was no price listed on ZAG for some, and now it makes sense that it can vary. I’m interested to know why.
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TeaTotaling
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:42 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm
steanzeI’m not a big fan of that design but it is clearly well done in my opinion. I’m curious to know how much that F1 pot sold for compared the original design you linked to.
I’ll keep you posted.
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:49 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm
steanzeI’m not a big fan of that design but it is clearly well done in my opinion. I’m curious to know how much that F1 pot sold for compared the original design you linked to.
Sometimes it is difficult to evaluate a pot without a comparison to similar designs made by other artists. I post here an example of this design which I think is finely made (not mine) - unfortunately the picture is not very large, but it should be useful to compare and notice some differences:
v2-5a850c18d21488e1531e4f526d547e9e_r.jpg
v2-5a850c18d21488e1531e4f526d547e9e_r.jpg (36.67 KiB) Viewed 355 times
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TeaTotaling
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:56 pm

steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:49 pm
Chadrinkincat wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm
steanzeI’m not a big fan of that design but it is clearly well done in my opinion. I’m curious to know how much that F1 pot sold for compared the original design you linked to.
Sometimes it is difficult to evaluate a pot without a comparison to similar designs made by other artists. I post here an example of this design which I think is finely made (not mine) - unfortunately the picture is not very large, but it should be useful to compare and notice some differences:

Image
Wow! The refined intricacies are very noticeable when looked at comparatively. Thanks for sharing!
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:06 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Wow! The refined intricacies are very noticeable when looked at comparatively. Thanks for sharing!
Image
You are welcome! Exactly, that is the reason for my observation. This does not mean that the ZAG teapot is a bad pot, it can be a quite good teapot - but that same design can be more refined, the level seen in the ZAG pot is not as "exceptional".
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TeaTotaling
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:16 pm

steanze wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:06 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:56 pm

Wow! The refined intricacies are very noticeable when looked at comparatively. Thanks for sharing!
Image
You are welcome! Exactly, that is the reason for my observation. This does not mean that the ZAG teapot is a bad pot, it can be a quite good teapot - but that same design can be more refined, the level seen in the ZAG pot is not as "exceptional".
Agreed, not nearly as exceptional. It's quite noticeable even given the choppy resolution of the other photo. This is definitely a good reference point to begin training one's eye to understand these types of details. Very helpful.

What would you estimate this pot to be sold for on ZAG? What would you say the price should be, in your opinion?

Also, I can see one reason the cost of a pot might fluctuate over time, and that would be the rank progression of an artist.

Aside from age and condition influencing value, would there any other reasons a pot's value might increase or decrease?
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steanze
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Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:32 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:16 pm

What would you estimate this pot to be sold for on ZAG? What would you say the price should be, in your opinion?

Also, I can see one reason the cost of a pot might fluctuate over time, and that would be the rank progression of an artist.

Aside from age and condition influencing value, would there any other reasons a pot's value might increase or decrease?
Prices are tricky, I prefer to discuss the artistry :)
They will depend on demand, and demand can change based on many factors
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