Yixing

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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:51 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:28 pm
TeaTotaling I’m glad your experience matches mine, I have found antique Zini/Zisha vastly superior in how it brews tea, compared to vintage or modern one. I had almost given up on Zini, when I only had 80s and newer at my disposal, it did only slightly improve mediocre roasted teas, but was a joy killer for most other teas.

Antique Zini is very good with many teas, be they green-ish, roast or aged. I love them with Dongding and similar teas.

Duanni has been very good with Gaoshan for my taste preferences.
Good to know I’m on the right track! It has been a joy to use.

Now I know where this antique trail can lead. @Balthazar summed it up well. Although, I prefer to cast this enjoyment in a more positive light.
Mark-S
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 pm

pantry wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:42 pm
Like what OCTO said, it might be a good idea to invest in one confirmed authentic pot with clay that knowledgeable and experienced users considered good quality. You then can compare them for yourself (and share with us your reasonings!) It could very well be that you prefer the cheaper pots you acquired--you be the judge!
Yeah, I'll save some money for a pot now. But I won't rush this because it's much money so it has to be well-conceived. ;)
TeaTotaling wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Mark-S For modern pots, if you haven't already, I would check out Chanting Pines. I cannot find better modern Zini.
Thanks for the advice, but I'll buy a F1 pot first for comparison. The modern clay is very different.
TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:22 pm
To the point where you can just pour boiling water into the pot and taste the collection of teas you have enjoyed over time.
I have read that this is a myth, and the water would still taste like water. Not trying to start a war here, that's just what I have read. Would love to hear your opinion on that.

-

An active member of the "Early tea pots II" Facebook group commented on my export pot btw, and he also thinks it's from F1. So at least I am not the only one who thinks that. :) Hopefully, someone knows the exact era.
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:41 pm

@Mark-S Thanks for bringing to light the potential for this to be merely a myth. Good debate, is healthy, and helps us learn.

In theory it would seem that due to a clays porosity some oils would build up over time, and release flavor and aroma when the pores are opened via boiling water. I'll let those with experience share their thoughts. I'm definitely curious to know if this in fact does take affect.
Mark-S
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:11 pm

I tried to find the source of this information and found this article: https://www.kyarazen.com/patina-develop ... xing-pots/

The article also gives some tips on pot section.
[...] after a long period of usage, if you add hot water into the empty pot, you can liberate some tea fragrance. You get a whiff of tea fragrance, not a brew from an empty pot.
So the argument I read was half-right.
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steanze
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:40 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:11 pm
I tried to find the source of this information and found this article: https://www.kyarazen.com/patina-develop ... xing-pots/

The article also gives some tips on pot section.
[...] after a long period of usage, if you add hot water into the empty pot, you can liberate some tea fragrance. You get a whiff of tea fragrance, not a brew from an empty pot.
So the argument I read was half-right.
you get basically sweet water (source: I tried :) )
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TeaTotaling
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:06 pm

@Mark-S Cool article, thanks for sharing!

@steanze Nice! How long has the pot you experimented with been in use?
Mark-S
Posts: 574
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:10 pm

steanze wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:40 pm
you get basically sweet water (source: I tried :) )
Thanks. It will probably take me years to try this myself. I always rotate my pots, so they don't get seasoned that fast. :roll:
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steanze
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm

TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:06 pm

steanze Nice! How long has the pot you experimented with been in use?
About 10 years
Chadrinkincat
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:33 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:09 pm
Bok wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:51 pm
Looks more like a modern pot to me.
The calligraphy looks handmade to me (you can see the lines they used to get the characters in the right position), so it's not a bad pot for €40. Let's wait until I can take a look at the inside / underside and ask on Facebook.

In less then a day I am ready to ask about the export pot for Japan (the one with the side handle you were sceptical about). They seem to have used a low temperature two part epoxy, so I could remove the bad repaired spout easily. If it's a F1 pot I'll get it fixed with kintsugi, if not I'll glue it back on myself and sell it on eBay. :)
Part of the reason you get so much negative feedback on your pots is because many are obvious duds but your unwilling to see it. This calligraphy pot is a prime example since it doesn’t require more than a passing glance to know what it is. 50/50 chance this one will have a CCCI seal
Chadrinkincat
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:48 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:49 pm
TeaTotaling

I'd consider this pot awesome for example: http://zishaartgallery.com/product/研究级高 ... 亚平-za0164/
And it would cost me at least $2000. At least somebody here said that all pots without a price tag would cost +$2000.

The "ordinary" F1 pots they sell cost nearly $500, and are often not better than the pots I already own. This pot for example: http://zishaartgallery.com/product/%e5% ... %e5%a8%9f/

I also would like to have multiple pots worth $$$$, but I just don't have the money for it.
Unlisted prices are normally start at $1000. That pot is from master/famous section though so it’s probably $$$$.
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steanze
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:05 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:48 pm

Unlisted prices are normally start at $1000. That pot is from master/famous section though so it’s probably $$$$.
It's by a lesser-known craftsman from the 80s, and it isn't very finely made, so I would be surprised if it's that expensive - but ZAG's prices are on the high side, so it is possible. If they put it in that section, you are right, it probably means that they consider a "high value" item.
Last edited by steanze on Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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steanze
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:34 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:33 pm

Part of the reason you get so much negative feedback on your pots is because many are obvious duds but your unwilling to see it. This calligraphy pot is a prime example since it doesn’t require more than a passing glance to know what it is. 50/50 chance this one will have a CCCI seal
^^ this
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OCTO
Posts: 549
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Location: Penang, Malaysia

Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:42 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:21 pm
pantry wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:42 pm
Like what OCTO said, it might be a good idea to invest in one confirmed authentic pot with clay that knowledgeable and experienced users considered good quality. You then can compare them for yourself (and share with us your reasonings!) It could very well be that you prefer the cheaper pots you acquired--you be the judge!
Yeah, I'll save some money for a pot now. But I won't rush this because it's much money so it has to be well-conceived. ;)
TeaTotaling wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:08 pm
Mark-S For modern pots, if you haven't already, I would check out Chanting Pines. I cannot find better modern Zini.
Thanks for the advice, but I'll buy a F1 pot first for comparison. The modern clay is very different.
@Mark-S

It's a good start. Always start with what you're comfortable with. What we offer are guidelines and advise based on our journey with tea and pots. Don't go break the bank... hahahaha....

As a matter of fact, Factory era pots is a good spot to begin with. It's easier to find references and documentations compared to earlier era pots. I agree with you that modern pots are an entirely new ballgame. But I do agree with with @TeaTotaling not to discount modern pots. I've found some that outperforms LQER pots in terms of brew performance by many folds. Let's take one step at a time.

Cheers!!
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OCTO
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:25 pm

@Mark-S
Mark-S wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:56 pm

That's my order of priority: clay quality, tea quality, water quality, design, workmanship, age.
Looking back at your comments and your order of priority, I can clearly see the underlining factors that drive your decision behind your purchases. Here's an interesting fact... artist/potter and workmanship plays a very important role in the final price of the teapot. Again, your order of priority is very normal and acceptable. Nothing wrong with it. Everyone have their own criteria. When I first started, price was my top priority. Don't even mention about clay quality or workmanship. Looking back, I still treasure my first pots. They are still standing in my cabinet. A humbling reminder of the starting point of my descend into the dark abyss... hahahahaha.....

Mark-S wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:49 pm

The "ordinary" F1 pots they sell cost nearly $500, and are often not better than the pots I already own. This pot for example: http://zishaartgallery.com/product/%e5% ... %e5%a8%9f/
F1_Dragon_Pot.jpg
F1_Dragon_Pot.jpg (183.66 KiB) Viewed 298 times

Aside from the shape, there is nothing that's clearly similar to the one you have. Allow me to share a little insight for so that we can all learn together. Here's my observation of the photo above, a side by side comparison between the ZAG pot and your pot. Your low priority score for workmanship explains your inability to place any importance in these small little aspects of workmanship (nothing wrong with this, it's a learning curve). It is in these intricate details where the money lies. I won't do a comparison of clay as both pots are not placed side by side. It won't be a fair and educated conclusion.

Don't get me wrong here, as long as your pot is not turning your oolong purple or into anything it's not meant to be, there is nothing wrong with your pot. PERIOD! It's always good to know what you have gotten yourself. Price wise, both pots are priced correctly based on their criteria displayed. Again, a lot of pots in Asia are also priced based on what I call the "collectability index" (if there's such a term)... hahahaha.... Asian Collectors have very specific criteria to what they consider collectible. FYI, Green Label F1 is not one of them (it's a good to know, but not a must have). I have to stress here, this is a collector's criteria. Not to be mistaken as a verification criteria (seen too many fake pots with authentic sticker, fake sticker on authentic pot and both fakes).

There you go, I believe this is not a mere "This is a crap pot" answer.... Do keep in mind, it's almost impossible to distinguish between 1979 and 1980.... That's why you will never get a precise date of origin for old zisha pots unless you do carbon dating.... Even the potter himself won't be able to tell you with 100% certainty.... hahahaha...

my 2cent's worth...

Cheers!!
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OCTO
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Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:48 pm

steanze wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:41 pm
TeaTotaling wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:06 pm

steanze Nice! How long has the pot you experimented with been in use?
About 10 years
"The original historical phrase was along the line of : 紫砂壶的特点是不夺茶香气又无熟汤气,壶壁吸附茶气,日久使用空壶里注入沸水也有茶香; This roughly means that the unique feature of yixing zisha pots is that it does not rob the tea’s fragrance, neither does it cook the tea leaves, it picks up the qi of the tea over time and after a long period of usage, if you add hot water into the empty pot, you can liberate some tea fragrance.

You get a whiff of tea fragrance, not a brew from an empty pot. You are not supposed to expect tea stains to dissolve to give you tea!!" - https://www.kyarazen.com/patina-develop ... xing-pots/#

The statement above stands true. As a beginner, I was extremely curious about this and did my own experiments too. There are some who subscribed to the school of thought that teapots should not be rinsed with clean water after brew. Only to be rinsed with it's own tea and left to dry. Over years of constant usage, you will be able to extract tea from the pot just by pouring hot water into it..... PLEASE STAY FAR FAR AWAY FROM THIS PRACTICE! Imagine the amount of bacteria that has been growing and blooming inside the pot!... hahaha... you might get bac-tea disguised as black tea.. hahahaha.....

Hygiene is always top priority to me. Pots are always rinsed with clean water and again with hot water. Some tea, like DanCong leaves a very pleasing aroma in your pot and you don't need years of usage to achieve that. Remember, what you feed your pot is what you'll get in return,

Cheers!!!
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