Yixing

Chadrinkincat
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Mon May 04, 2020 4:09 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 4:00 pm
Chadrinkincat wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 3:28 pm
Mark-S
https://m.facebook.com/groups/151574408 ... oup_browse

You can view many examples of these replica/copy pots in this group.
Nice, I did not know this group. How can I be sure if it's a replica / a copy or a genuine one? By the price?
I don’t think this group has listings for antique pots so you should just assume everything is modern.
Mark-S
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Mon May 04, 2020 4:19 pm

@Chadrinkincat

There are some F1 pots, but it's good to know that they don't sell antiques. I even found a similar makers mark after about 5 minutes. :lol: I will study this Facebook group more soon. Thanks for the advice.

https://m.facebook.com/100004608287314/ ... 742982610/
Mark-S
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Mon May 04, 2020 4:37 pm

And this one comes even closer: https://m.facebook.com/100004608287314/ ... 990308552/

Very useful group ;)

Do you by any chance know a group that shows/sells genuine antiques? Then I could do a side by side comparison.
Chadrinkincat
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Mon May 04, 2020 6:36 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 4:37 pm
And this one comes even closer: https://m.facebook.com/100004608287314/ ... 990308552/

Very useful group ;)

Do you by any chance know a group that shows/sells genuine antiques? Then I could do a side by side comparison.
I don’t know of groups or online resources for antique pots. Books are probably your best bet or old catalogs from respectable auction houses.

I’d suggest shelling out $2k for an authentic pot from ZAG instead looking for $250 antiques on eBay. Or you could just buy something from Bok.
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Bok
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Mon May 04, 2020 6:38 pm

@Mark-S the Pot with black bones I posted above is also Qing/Roc Zhuni, for your reference...

There are not 100% authentic antique selling sites. Even professionals do tend to have the occasional fake among their stuff. The antique shops in Taipei always have some for sure. The collectors for sure, knowingly and unknowingly.

Some fakes are almost perfect. I keep repeating to tell of one pot I held in hands where everything seemed right - except the weight of it betrayed it as a fake :))) see the level of sophistication?
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Bok
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Mon May 04, 2020 6:40 pm

Another good thing to do is to train oneself in classic art. If you know about colours and proportions you might be able to spot the difference between real and fake. But this takes time and a certain amount of talent...
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OCTO
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Location: Penang, Malaysia

Mon May 04, 2020 9:04 pm

Mark-S wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 3:04 pm
pantry
I just have trouble understanding OCTO's assessment of the clay's color, and want to learn more about it.
@Mark-S

Indeed it's extremely hard to explain that in detail to you without having a side by side comparison done with that pot. Best I can explain is you will know it's a replica (I seldom use the word fake as it's extremely relative to each individual set of eyes) when you have seen and held enough of it over the years of scouring through hundreds and thousands of teapots. It's not that one will possess supernatural powers over the years to identify one, but in reality have been misled (tuition fees paid) so many times, you can smell a rat when they enter the room!.... hahahahaha.....

I have very consistently said, TeaArt is a journey... to some, it's a weekend's getaway, for some, it's an adventure..... to each their own. Mine have been a life long journey and adventure I don't intend to stop anytime soon and I'm enjoying every second of it... hahahaha.... Your enthusiasm will bring you to many corners of the Yixing world and to the Dark Abyss of vintage Yixing. My best advise to you is to limit your finds to no earlier than the 80s. You will be able to find yourself many good quality clay and pots in that era. You can use Factory pots as a guideline to start off with your journey. As @pantry said earlier, a good indicator is the price. To collectors, what is categorised as "Grade A" F1 pots will cost around US$300 - US$400 per pot. Why would one not question a antique pot that's worth many times more when it's sold on eBay for the same price... some even lower! Like I've mentioned, if you're looking for a replica, then expectation meets desired outcome. If you're looking for an authentic Qing, then it's gonna be a disappointment.

Among collectors from this part of the world, ROC and Qing pots are heavily scrutinised and debated over. Simple logic will tell you, there aren't that many antique pots lying around anymore. More so when it's in perfect condition. Many replicas of Qing, ROC up until 70s, were made in the 90s due to strong demands in the antiquity market.

Hope this helps clear some air for you.

Cheers!!
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OCTO
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Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 6:36 pm
Mark-S wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 4:37 pm
And this one comes even closer: https://m.facebook.com/100004608287314/ ... 990308552/

Very useful group ;)

Do you by any chance know a group that shows/sells genuine antiques? Then I could do a side by side comparison.
I don’t know of groups or online resources for antique pots. Books are probably your best bet or old catalogs from respectable auction houses.

I’d suggest shelling out $2k for an authentic pot from ZAG instead looking for $250 antiques on eBay. Or you could just buy something from Bok.
@Mark-S

What will be a fun adventure is to save up the money and take a trip to Yixing and scour the town of Yixing and learn from the people there. An alternative, you can fly to Penang, and I can accompany you to meet some serious collectors and give you a hand's on tour of teapots... hahahaha....

Cheers!
Teachronicles
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Tue May 05, 2020 12:51 am

Wow, it's been a long time since I last posted, I've missed a lot! I had a discussion earlier and this question came up. Are "lao zhuni" and "lao duanni" specific types of those two clays from LQER and earlier, or is any duanni or zhuni from that era considered "lao"? Was there just regular zhuni and duanni in that time period?
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Youzi
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Tue May 05, 2020 1:57 am

Teachronicles wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:51 am
Wow, it's been a long time since I last posted, I've missed a lot! I had a discussion earlier and this question came up. Are "lao zhuni" and "lao duanni" specific types of those two clays from LQER and earlier, or is any duanni or zhuni from that era considered "lao"? Was there just regular zhuni and duanni in that time period?
There's no Lao Zhuni or Lao Duanni, from the perspective of yixing ores.

Lao Zhuni and Lao Duanni are vaguely defined terms, used for multiple things, based on who you ask. It's like Qingshuini, but less defined and more misused.

These names are used to refer to a specific look and feel of the finished teapot and doesn't relate to any specific ore.

Lao Zhuni quite often used used for referring to antique zhuni collectively. However that doesn't make much sense, because in those times, Zhuni was mixed usually by a specific clay recipe and wasn't pure most of the times. It could've made from Hongwei or Zhaozhuang or very rarely HLS material so it doesn't even refer to a specific mine.

So I advise not using these an umbrella term, because it'll just create more confusion, and possibly more tuition fees.
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hopeofdawn
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Tue May 05, 2020 2:26 am

Possibly a weird question: when I look at yixing, I don't even really look at any claims of antique clay/pots/etc. because I don't have the expertise to assess those claims and it's not a priority for me. I much prefer modern pots with good craftsmanship/decent clay and visually appealing designs. No offense to the collectors out there--I know the classic designs are classics for a reason--but I'm not all that interested in collecting a large number of mostly-identical pots.

That said, does anyone have any recommendations for modern studios/pots producing interesting works? Ones that are working in the yixing tradition, but trying out new designs?
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Youzi
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Tue May 05, 2020 2:45 am

hopeofdawn wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:26 am
Possibly a weird question: when I look at yixing, I don't even really look at any claims of antique clay/pots/etc. because I don't have the expertise to assess those claims and it's not a priority for me. I much prefer modern pots with good craftsmanship/decent clay and visually appealing designs. No offense to the collectors out there--I know the classic designs are classics for a reason--but I'm not all that interested in collecting a large number of mostly-identical pots.

That said, does anyone have any recommendations for modern studios/pots producing interesting works? Ones that are working in the yixing tradition, but trying out new designs?
What kind of new designs are you thinking about? If you look at @OCTO's teapot from another thread, that's quite contemporary :D
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hopeofdawn
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Tue May 05, 2020 3:12 am

Youzi wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:45 am
hopeofdawn wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:26 am
Possibly a weird question: when I look at yixing, I don't even really look at any claims of antique clay/pots/etc. because I don't have the expertise to assess those claims and it's not a priority for me. I much prefer modern pots with good craftsmanship/decent clay and visually appealing designs. No offense to the collectors out there--I know the classic designs are classics for a reason--but I'm not all that interested in collecting a large number of mostly-identical pots.

That said, does anyone have any recommendations for modern studios/pots producing interesting works? Ones that are working in the yixing tradition, but trying out new designs?
What kind of new designs are you thinking about? If you look at OCTO's teapot from another thread, that's quite contemporary :D
Pretty much anything that's not the traditional shui ping, shi piao, xi shi and the like--I'm not looking for a particular design (anymore) so much an interesting new takes on the classics, or just unique new shapes period. And I will admit there's a lot of wild and crazy stuff out there on Ebay, Taobao and the like; the problem becomes that there's no good way to tell if such pots were crafted well (in that they are comfortable to handle, have a clean pour, and retain the right amount of heat) or whether the clay has been adulterated. Short of buying them and taking my chances, anyway. That's why I was wondering if anyone had any studio recommendations.
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Youzi
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Tue May 05, 2020 3:30 am

hopeofdawn wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:12 am
Youzi wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:45 am
hopeofdawn wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:26 am
Possibly a weird question: when I look at yixing, I don't even really look at any claims of antique clay/pots/etc. because I don't have the expertise to assess those claims and it's not a priority for me. I much prefer modern pots with good craftsmanship/decent clay and visually appealing designs. No offense to the collectors out there--I know the classic designs are classics for a reason--but I'm not all that interested in collecting a large number of mostly-identical pots.

That said, does anyone have any recommendations for modern studios/pots producing interesting works? Ones that are working in the yixing tradition, but trying out new designs?
What kind of new designs are you thinking about? If you look at OCTO's teapot from another thread, that's quite contemporary :D
Pretty much anything that's not the traditional shui ping, shi piao, xi shi and the like--I'm not looking for a particular design (anymore) so much an interesting new takes on the classics, or just unique new shapes period. And I will admit there's a lot of wild and crazy stuff out there on Ebay, Taobao and the like; the problem becomes that there's no good way to tell if such pots were crafted well (in that they are comfortable to handle, have a clean pour, and retain the right amount of heat) or whether the clay has been adulterated. Short of buying them and taking my chances, anyway. That's why I was wondering if anyone had any studio recommendations.
Take a look at the teapots from ranked artists on Taohuren and Zisha.com to set your standards and see what the top masters are doing.
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hopeofdawn
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Tue May 05, 2020 3:34 am

Thank you--I will check them out. :)
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