Nixing, Jianshui, etc

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tealifehk
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:35 am

I remember when I first saw some of K.S. Lo's collection in 1993 or so (on a school field trip)! I still remember my shock and disappointment when some of the more vocal members of my class very loudly proclaimed they thought the pots were boring and the trip was a waste of time and just wanted out of there. I was in awe of the incredible historic building and the materpieces within. I visited the museum again recently, maybe 25 years after my first visit, and pored over everything.

Unfortunately a lot of the exhibits were on display at the airport at the time. I'll have to go back for another look some time!
jessepat84
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:26 am

Balthazar wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:11 pm
Interesting topic. I have no personal experience with either kind, but have heard positive things about Nixing for heicha, shu and even roasted oolong.

How muting do you find the pots you own?
I used to own a couple of Nixing pots that were typical examples (smooth, almost "metallic" surface, quite heavy and impervious clay). Those functioned quite nicely with a variety of teas, including lighter oolong, and didn't mute much.

Currently I have a single wood fired Nixing pot and was surprised how different it is, since before I thought these pots are quite uniform. It must be about the firing (there's also an audible sizzle when adding hot water, something I haven't witnessed with other Nixing). It is more obviously muting compared to other Nixing I've tried, which also means that it's pickier about which teas I brew in it. I was using it for shu pu'er for a while, but agree here that the performance didn't match what I'd get with Yixing... however, it seems to work very well with Tian Jian, out of all things.

Overall, from the few Nixing pots I've tried, I would definitely say it's a whole different game compared to Yixing. The same goes for Jianshui. I used to have one of those too, but haven't replaced it since it found a new owner a good while back. :)
Last edited by jessepat84 on Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Balthazar
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:29 am

tealifehk wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:15 am
He wrote something to that effect in that very book! I don't remember the exact statement he made, but in effect he said the clay was identical. I disagree, but it was an interesting statement for one of the most prolific and well-known Yixing collectors of all time to make!

I often do suggest Nixing over modern zini, due to how dirty the market is, and how often 'purple' clay is adulterated in today's world. Nixing can perform quite closely (but I find good zini to perform slightly better).
Thanks for the clarification, Jay. Your confirmation that it was from same book led me to realize that I should try some other search terms than "nixing". And I think I found the page :)

Image

Unfortunately not a part of the preview. It's a shame this book has not been republished (some minor factual errors / name mixups notwithstanding). A new copy can be had at the price of an ROC teapot, a used one for the price of vintage F1.

I guess it's off to one of the Hong Kong libraries then :mrgreen:
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Balthazar
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:38 am

@jessepat84 interesting, thanks for sharing!

Especially the muting part, as I've heard some say nixing is suitable for heicha and shu and others say it's significantly less muting than most types of yixing clay.

Btw, what do you mean by "single wood Nixing pot". Wood fire in the kiln, and only a single firing?
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tealifehk
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:00 am

Balthazar wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:38 am
jessepat84 interesting, thanks for sharing!

Especially the muting part, as I've heard some say nixing is suitable for heicha and shu and others say it's significantly less muting than most types of yixing clay.

Btw, what do you mean by "single wood Nixing pot". Wood fire in the kiln, and only a single firing?
It's more muting than some zini (definitely than hongni) and less muting than some zini (and duanni). ;) Based on my sample size of five or so Nixing pots (and a few hundred Yixing pots).
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tealifehk
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:01 am

Balthazar wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:29 am
tealifehk wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:15 am
He wrote something to that effect in that very book! I don't remember the exact statement he made, but in effect he said the clay was identical. I disagree, but it was an interesting statement for one of the most prolific and well-known Yixing collectors of all time to make!

I often do suggest Nixing over modern zini, due to how dirty the market is, and how often 'purple' clay is adulterated in today's world. Nixing can perform quite closely (but I find good zini to perform slightly better).
Thanks for the clarification, Jay. Your confirmation that it was from same book led me to realize that I should try some other search terms than "nixing". And I think I found the page :)

Image

Unfortunately not a part of the preview. It's a shame this book has not been republished (some minor factual errors / name mixups notwithstanding). A new copy can be had at the price of an ROC teapot, a used one for the price of vintage F1.

I guess it's off to one of the Hong Kong libraries then :mrgreen:
The book is readily available from the libraries here (on request), but they've been shut for months due to COVID.
jessepat84
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:28 am

Balthazar wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:38 am
Btw, what do you mean by "single wood Nixing pot". Wood fire in the kiln, and only a single firing?
That was a typo (now corrected). I meant to say "single wood fired" (i.e. I have tried just one wood fired Nixing pot, and if that's anything to go by, the performance seems very different compared to pots that weren't fired in a wood kiln). :)
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wave_code
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:52 am

I did open up the box of danker liu bao I've got the other day to see how muting the nixing pot was. I hadn't had that tea in a while so I'll have to try it again in porcelain for a better comparison... but provisionally the nixing certainly does something, though I'm not sure its so strong in muting. I could still taste some more coppery and dark soil like flavors that a wetter storage would probably increase, but the nose on the brewed tea seemed cleaner. after around 2 brews it got a lot sweeter than I remember too. but yeah, not the most careful or measured assessment, and on a scale of 1 to 10ultradankmoldy I'm not sure where this tea would necessarily fall other than it has more storage notes than any of my other teas on hand. also with the pot only being a few weeks old, I don't know how much muting can have to do with a pots seasoning which goes verrry slow with nixing and jianshui.

@tealifehk does the wood firing maybe make the pot more porous?
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tealifehk
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:50 am

wave_code wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:52 am
tealifehk does the wood firing maybe make the pot more porous?
Even a difference in thickness of glazed porcelain can cause a massive difference in effects, so yes, it could be firing. Is the wood fired pot thicker than your other pots though? IMO wall thickness of a pot has a big effect on muting.
jessepat84
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:14 am

tealifehk wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:50 am
Is the wood fired pot thicker than your other pots though? IMO wall thickness of a pot has a big effect on muting.
Not markedly so. When pouring hot water inside the wood fired pot, there is also an audible sizzle, something I've never noticed with other Nixing wares. My feeling is that the wood fired version is far more porous, for better or worse. Of course other wood fired pots might differ, this is just a single specimen and there are many factors I'm not taking into account. Regardless, even if there is less versatility in terms of the clay (compared to all the different types of Yixing ore, for example), I think Nixing can also display more variation than I originally imagined.
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Youzi
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:20 am

jessepat84 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:14 am
tealifehk wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:50 am
Is the wood fired pot thicker than your other pots though? IMO wall thickness of a pot has a big effect on muting.
Not markedly so. When pouring hot water inside the wood fired pot, there is also an audible sizzle, something I've never noticed with other Nixing wares. My feeling is that the wood fired version is far more porous, for better or worse. Of course other wood fired pots might differ, this is just a single specimen and there are many factors I'm not taking into account. Regardless, even if there is less versatility in terms of the clay (compared to all the different types of Yixing ore, for example), I think Nixing can also display more variation than I originally imagined.
I don't think it's a matter of wood firing or not, but more so firing temp and time it was fired, and also since the clay is a mix of two clays, then the composition of the clay.

Other than that, shape, size, wall thickness can all have a significant effect on the tea.
jessepat84
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Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:28 am

Youzi wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:20 am
more so firing temp and time it was fired, and also since the clay is a mix of two clays, then the composition of the clay.
Other than that, shape, size, wall thickness can all have a significant effect on the tea.
Quite likely, yes.

Ultimately, the point is: not all Nixing pots are the same ;)
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tealifehk
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Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm

jessepat84 wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:14 am
tealifehk wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 4:50 am
Is the wood fired pot thicker than your other pots though? IMO wall thickness of a pot has a big effect on muting.
Not markedly so. When pouring hot water inside the wood fired pot, there is also an audible sizzle, something I've never noticed with other Nixing wares. My feeling is that the wood fired version is far more porous, for better or worse. Of course other wood fired pots might differ, this is just a single specimen and there are many factors I'm not taking into account. Regardless, even if there is less versatility in terms of the clay (compared to all the different types of Yixing ore, for example), I think Nixing can also display more variation than I originally imagined.
The sizzle also happens with underfired pots: no funky clay smell/taste from the pot, right? I've never owned a wood fired Nixing.
jessepat84
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:16 am

tealifehk wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm
The sizzle also happens with underfired pots: no funky clay smell/taste from the pot, right? I've never owned a wood fired Nixing.
I haven't detected any off scents or flavours (it spent several days at a temperature above 1300 Celsius, hard to imagine it being underfired). The inside of the pot is a shade of orange rather than the more usual grey / mottled brown. I'm unsure what the typical temperature range for firing Nixing is, though - maybe someone here knows the answer :-)
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tealifehk
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Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:59 pm

jessepat84 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:16 am
tealifehk wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:52 pm
The sizzle also happens with underfired pots: no funky clay smell/taste from the pot, right? I've never owned a wood fired Nixing.
I haven't detected any off scents or flavours (it spent several days at a temperature above 1300 Celsius, hard to imagine it being underfired). The inside of the pot is a shade of orange rather than the more usual grey / mottled brown. I'm unsure what the typical temperature range for firing Nixing is, though - maybe someone here knows the answer :-)
I have one with some orange inside: not particularly muting though. Wonder if it's purely down to wood firing or just other parameters related to firing and/or clay processing. I don't worry about all of that too much though and just take each pot on its own merit. :)
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