Claims about HLS/vintage/zhuni clay in modern teapots

[TeaTotaling]

Kupuntu I found this article informative. Yixing Clay lore is a mysterious topic indeed.

http://archive.globalteahut.org/article/954

That article is really nice, and a good introduction, but there are many inaccuracies in it.

Please share! Always trying to fine tune, and expand on knowledge. Searching for the truth.

[Kupuntu]

I purposely didn't post where I bought the pots from, but both vendors are well regarded here and you find both clay types from multiple vendors (modern zhuni pots especially, direct from China).

[TeaTotaling]

I purposely didn't post where I bought the pots from, but both vendors are well regarded here and you find both clay types from multiple vendors (modern zhuni pots especially, direct from China).

I was just thinking of doing a little background research on who the vendors might work with studio/artist wise, not necessarily taking their word for it. Connecting the dots. From what I have discovered, modern Zhuni is not the same as Zhuni from the late 18th to early 19th century. Seems to be more of a sales tactic nowadays.

[Youzi]

Kupuntu I found this article informative. Yixing Clay lore is a mysterious topic indeed.

http://archive.globalteahut.org/article/954

That article is really nice, and a good introduction, but there are many inaccuracies in it.

Please share! Always trying to fine tune, and expand on knowledge. Searching for the truth.

Mostly just the technicalities like the main ore categories, the colors, the and the mines and ore being "Extinct" etc. like this.

[Youzi]

I purposely didn't post where I bought the pots from, but both vendors are well regarded here and you find both clay types from multiple vendors (modern zhuni pots especially, direct from China).

I was just thinking of doing a little background research on who the vendors might work with studio/artist wise, not necessarily taking their word for it. Connecting the dots. From what I have discovered, modern Zhuni is not the same as Zhuni from the late 18th to early 19th century. Seems to be more of a sales tactic nowadays.

Late Qing ROC Zhuni is also different from Mid Qing Zhuni. Usually Zhuni in these days were never pure, and it's rarely pure nowadays too.
But it was mixed with other ores, or other zhuni, or the clay was made with a special technique.

[TeaTotaling]

@Youzi Good point regarding the differences in Zhuni even from mid to late Qing. I think your first blog post was more concise regarding Yixing Zisha Clay.

[Youzi]

Youzi Good point regarding the differences in Zhuni even from mid to late Qing. I think your first blog post was more concise regarding Yixing Zisha Clay.

Yes, but I should update those, there are some details, which I've learned and should be added.
Also have to update my Zini article.
Anyways, the main categories are:
Zini, Hongni, Zhuni, Lüni

Tuanni (Duanni is a mix of the above four and not any specific looking ore)

Geologically the main categories are Jiani(Zini, Lüni, Hongni), Baini(Baini, and Kaolin rich ores), Nenni( Nenni, Zhuni etc.)

[TeaTotaling]

@Youzi Interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledgable insight. I did not know that about Duanni, in fact I don't know much compared to the vast ocean that is Zisha. I would be curious if you might have an idea of what 80's Duanni might consist of. Not a whole lot of verifiable literature that I currently have access too.

[Youzi]

Youzi Interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledgable insight. I did not know that about Duanni, in fact I don't know much compared to the vast ocean that is Zisha. I would be curious if you might have an idea of what 80's Duanni might consist of. Not a whole lot of verifiable literature that I currently have access too.

80s F1 Duanni? All of F1's clay is mixed, none of it is made of Pure ore. it was made to supply their 4 colors: Dark brown, light brown, orange and yellow.
So sometimes it has more Lüni, sometimes more Yellow Duanni, the point is that it should have a yellow color after firing. Considering the timeline, probably No. 4 Mine material. Mine 4 ran from 1972-1997 and produced 70 000 tonnes of ore each year. So it was the main supply for the materials probably.

But all F1 clays are blended, keep that in mind.

[steanze]

I purposely didn't post where I bought the pots from, but both vendors are well regarded here and you find both clay types from multiple vendors (modern zhuni pots especially, direct from China).

I was just thinking of doing a little background research on who the vendors might work with studio/artist wise, not necessarily taking their word for it. Connecting the dots. From what I have discovered, modern Zhuni is not the same as Zhuni from the late 18th to early 19th century. Seems to be more of a sales tactic nowadays.

Yes, modern zhuni is very different from 18th-19th century zhuni, up until early 20th century. Even if the ore were the same, the processing was very different. The difference between modern zhuni and zhuni from that period is much bigger than the difference between different batches of ROC or earlier zhuni. For example, the appearance of mid Qing and late Qing zhuni are much closer to each other than the appearance of ROC zhuni and modern.

[steanze]

80s F1 Duanni? All of F1's clay is mixed, none of it is made of Pure ore. it was made to supply their 4 colors: Dark brown, light brown, orange and yellow.
So sometimes it has more Lüni, sometimes more Yellow Duanni, the point is that it should have a yellow color after firing. Considering the timeline, probably No. 4 Mine material. Mine 4 ran from 1972-1997 and produced 70 000 tonnes of ore each year. So it was the main supply for the materials probably.

But all F1 clays are blended, keep that in mind.

Yes, these are very good points. It is also important to remember that there is nothing inherently good about a pot being made of "pure ore". Even the Ming dynasty masters added crushed sand or quartz to their teapots. As long as the things that are added are not harmful and produce a beautiful pot that performs well with tea, that is what matters most

[TeaTotaling]

Youzi Interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledgable insight. I did not know that about Duanni, in fact I don't know much compared to the vast ocean that is Zisha. I would be curious if you might have an idea of what 80's Duanni might consist of. Not a whole lot of verifiable literature that I currently have access too.

80s F1 Duanni? All of F1's clay is mixed, none of it is made of Pure ore. it was made to supply their 4 colors: Dark brown, light brown, orange and yellow.
So sometimes it has more Lüni, sometimes more Yellow Duanni, the point is that it should have a yellow color after firing. Considering the timeline, probably No. 4 Mine material. Mine 4 ran from 1972-1997 and produced 70 000 tonnes of ore each year. So it was the main supply for the materials probably.

But all F1 clays are blended, keep that in mind.

It was the modified Shi Da Bin Monk's Hat you pointed out in the other thread. The only information I have is 80's Duanni by artist Ding Jufen. I cannot find any information about the artist. Now that you mention Duanni being a mix of many different clays, it makes sense why this 80's Duanni I am waiting to receive is much lighter than other Duanni I have seen. I guess it really depends on many different factors like era, studio, artist, and location.

[TeaTotaling]

Exactly @steanze! Clean, pure ingredients that beautifully complement, beautiful tea, are what I am after

[Youzi]

80s F1 Duanni? All of F1's clay is mixed, none of it is made of Pure ore. it was made to supply their 4 colors: Dark brown, light brown, orange and yellow.
So sometimes it has more Lüni, sometimes more Yellow Duanni, the point is that it should have a yellow color after firing. Considering the timeline, probably No. 4 Mine material. Mine 4 ran from 1972-1997 and produced 70 000 tonnes of ore each year. So it was the main supply for the materials probably.

But all F1 clays are blended, keep that in mind.

Yes, these are very good points. It is also important to remember that there is nothing inherently good about a pot being made of "pure ore". Even the Ming dynasty masters added crushed sand or quartz to their teapots. As long as the things that are added are not harmful and produce a beautiful pot that performs well with tea, that is what matters most

Well, on one hand, I personally prefer mixed clay pots, Cuvé but on the other hand I like to collect teapots made of rare ores. So if it's a rare ore, then I'd prefer to have it pure. Otherwise, if I want an awesome pot for daily use, and drinking tea, and looks, color, then I'd opt for Masterfully Mixed clays instead

[Youzi]

Youzi Interesting, thanks for sharing your knowledgable insight. I did not know that about Duanni, in fact I don't know much compared to the vast ocean that is Zisha. I would be curious if you might have an idea of what 80's Duanni might consist of. Not a whole lot of verifiable literature that I currently have access too.

80s F1 Duanni? All of F1's clay is mixed, none of it is made of Pure ore. it was made to supply their 4 colors: Dark brown, light brown, orange and yellow.
So sometimes it has more Lüni, sometimes more Yellow Duanni, the point is that it should have a yellow color after firing. Considering the timeline, probably No. 4 Mine material. Mine 4 ran from 1972-1997 and produced 70 000 tonnes of ore each year. So it was the main supply for the materials probably.

But all F1 clays are blended, keep that in mind.

It was the modified Shi Da Bin Monk's Hat you pointed out in the other thread. The only information I have is 80's Duanni by artist Ding Jufen. I cannot find any information about the artist. Now that you mention Duanni being a mix of many different clays, it makes sense why this 80's Duanni I am waiting to receive is much lighter than other Duanni I have seen. I guess it really depends on many different factors like era, studio, artist, and location.

It's important to point out, that Tuanni (Duanni) is a natural mix of ores in it self. It's an ore between two other ore layers. For example, there is Tuanni Zhuni, which is an ore between a Lüni layer and a Zhuni Layer.

However the clays (clay as it is not the ore, but already processed, by humans) used by F1 are blended to achieve a certain color.