I have a similar list myself created from all the other people’s recommendations. I still haven’t had the opportunity to buy from all the companies on my list.
Puzzled wannabe Yixing buyer
There are two aspects of my exploration of tea I find slightly frustrating :swordofmytriumph wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:02 pmI still haven’t had the opportunity to buy from all the companies on my list.
- When I purchase a tea I find lacking, it takes some time reaching the end of the bag.
- When I purchase a tea I find lacking, I always wonder to what extent this opinion would be shared among experienced tea drinkers.
Finding out such a tea is not to my liking would at least make finishing the bag feel more like a learning experience.
I've found that a lot of tea enthusiasts don't know what good tea tastes like because good teas are difficult to get.
You have to have connections and even then it may take years to develop enough guanxi to get the top end stuff. Don't expect to walk up to the farm and buy the best of their crop: it's already spoken for. Just the same, don't expect to get the very best teas from western-facing retailers. The ones mentioned above try their best, though.
I tend to get my Taiwanese teas through connections with people who have connections. Private sales or gifts. I might get a pound or a crumb, but the tea has been far above what I have found in online shops.
I still don't have good enough connections for mainland teas. It's contentious but I am certain that some raved about mainland teas that make it into enthusiast circles are artificially scented. I can smell the added allspice, artificial rose, lilac, and laundry scent on dancongs. Growers and sellers deny the practice but my nose doesn't lie. (And no, please don't DM me for dirt on sellers; I won't reply)
Japan, in my experience, is different. You can buy amazing teas and it is easier to develop relationships. I haven't encountered artificially scented teas from Japan.
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From what I understand there is a scale, and many of the vendors we frequent here tend to be on the “very good, occasionally amazing, but not spectacular” rung of the tea ladder. Would you say that is the case? After that comes amazing tea, which you need connections to obtain, and then the spectacular stuff, which requires connections and the price goes up quite a bit. (All of this excepting Japanese like you mentioned).
I wonder if that is a cultural thing?
More often than not "Most X enthusiasts don't know the best X, because the best X is hard to get", irrespective of the value of X. Most wine enthusiasts never drink decades old top-quality wine. Most car enthusiasts never get to drive an F1. Whether due to lack of contacts or, more often than not, money, most living soul have to accept that.
Even setting aside that "good", "better" or "best" are a matter of taste, what one defines as "good" is a matter of judgement. To some it might be anything in the top 50%. To others it is the top 0.001%.
I am at the point where getting an idea of the taste (and price) of, say, "the best relatively easily available online to westerners without being outrageously expensive" would already be progress and should keep me occupied for quite a while, although it will not get me to the rarefied and probably ridiculously expensive world of exclusive, true top-end teas.
I am sure scented Chinese teas are best paired with fake Yixing pots!
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Well said.faj wrote: ↑Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:00 pmMore often than not "Most X enthusiasts don't know the best X, because the best X is hard to get", irrespective of the value of X. Most wine enthusiasts never drink decades old top-quality wine. Most car enthusiasts never get to drive an F1. Whether due to lack of contacts or, more often than not, money, most living soul have to accept that.
Even setting aside that "good", "better" or "best" are a matter of taste, what one defines as "good" is a matter of judgement. To some it might be anything in the top 50%. To others it is the top 0.001%.
I am at the point where getting an idea of the taste (and price) of, say, "the best relatively easily available online to westerners without being outrageously expensive" would already be progress and should keep me occupied for quite a while, although it will not get me to the rarefied and probably ridiculously expensive world of exclusive, true top-end teas.
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Quite a few years ago, they were dragged on TeaChat pretty hard for marking up common puerh cakes an absurd amount, and selling "aged" oolong that obviously wasn't. No idea if they have since cleaned up their act, but for me, once a bridge is burned... too many other vendors out there worth exploring.
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A handful of their puerh is from Sunsing in HK. some of the 90’s cakes are actually cheaper than SS but most of the cakes I tried had terrible storage which I’m guessing is why these are selling for way less.tingjunkie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:21 amQuite a few years ago, they were dragged on TeaChat pretty hard for marking up common puerh cakes an absurd amount, and selling "aged" oolong that obviously wasn't. No idea if they have since cleaned up their act, but for me, once a bridge is burned... too many other vendors out there worth exploring.
Have you received your new teapot, @swordofmytriumph?swordofmytriumph wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:46 amI have just taken the plunge and bought one of their yixing, and when it arrives I will post a review for the benefit of our fair forum!
I noticed MudandLeaves posted about a very small batch of clay they just processed. Link below.
https://www.mudandleaves.com/teatime-bl ... -skin-clay
Their claim is this is Lipini, a type of lüni which is found in small amounts in Tian Qing Ni clay deposits. In my very limited readings, I have found no claims that Tian Qing Ni was still being mined, or that there was an even more elusive clay being mined with it. I would be curious to know what more knowledgeable and experienced people make of this claim.
Aside from how little of this clay they have extracted from the several hundreds of kg of Tian Qing Ni they have on hand (in itself quite a claim to me it seems), they do not seem to be making any claim on its effect on tea, or even recommended tea pairings for that matter.
@Youzi, in your blog, you had information about Tian Qing Ni. Maybe you could comment on this?
https://www.mudandleaves.com/teatime-bl ... -skin-clay
Their claim is this is Lipini, a type of lüni which is found in small amounts in Tian Qing Ni clay deposits. In my very limited readings, I have found no claims that Tian Qing Ni was still being mined, or that there was an even more elusive clay being mined with it. I would be curious to know what more knowledgeable and experienced people make of this claim.
Aside from how little of this clay they have extracted from the several hundreds of kg of Tian Qing Ni they have on hand (in itself quite a claim to me it seems), they do not seem to be making any claim on its effect on tea, or even recommended tea pairings for that matter.
@Youzi, in your blog, you had information about Tian Qing Ni. Maybe you could comment on this?
It's marketing... the end result does not look like any old pots I have seen. IT could still brew good tea though.
I would focus on broader distinctions (hongni/zini/duanni), firing temperature, grain, and most importantly the quality of the clay. If the clay is super rare or super common doesn't really matter for your tea brewing, unless you are a collector. And if you are a collector I'd advise to spend a long time studying old pots first.
I would focus on broader distinctions (hongni/zini/duanni), firing temperature, grain, and most importantly the quality of the clay. If the clay is super rare or super common doesn't really matter for your tea brewing, unless you are a collector. And if you are a collector I'd advise to spend a long time studying old pots first.
Do you have some photos of actual Li Pi Ni? Not the style or texture, but the one made from DST Li Pi Ni?steanze wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:08 pmIt's marketing... the end result does not look like any old pots I have seen. IT could still brew good tea though.
I would focus on broader distinctions (hongni/zini/duanni), firing temperature, grain, and most importantly the quality of the clay. If the clay is super rare or super common doesn't really matter for your tea brewing, unless you are a collector. And if you are a collector I'd advise to spend a long time studying old pots first.
I tried to find photos of old pots of Li Pi Ni, but all were just imitation of the surface texture, not actually made out of the clay.
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It should be here tomorrow! It has arrived at the regional distribution center and usually once that happens it arrives the next day.faj wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:13 pmHave you received your new teapot, swordofmytriumph?swordofmytriumph wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:46 amI have just taken the plunge and bought one of their yixing, and when it arrives I will post a review for the benefit of our fair forum!
+1 of what @steanze said.
Another collector friend mentioned “just looks like old Duanni” which in turn makes me think that a lot of antiques that look like Duanni, are actually Lipini. They can be grainy and lean towards the greenish.
Still funny, how a teapot from a rare clay blend where the ore is under the water can cost as little as 200$? Not rare??
Another collector friend mentioned “just looks like old Duanni” which in turn makes me think that a lot of antiques that look like Duanni, are actually Lipini. They can be grainy and lean towards the greenish.
Still funny, how a teapot from a rare clay blend where the ore is under the water can cost as little as 200$? Not rare??
I don't know. I have seen many old duanni pots, some are more grainy, some are less. What should I look for to determine if it is actual "Li Pi Ni"? Is this one below Li Pi Ni?