Yixing

[Bok]

I imagine it's even worse for folks who are buying really pricy antique teaware.

Yes, only experience will help here, no one, anywhere, will let you try antique teaware first, haha. Some collectors with high reputation may be able to take a pot home first to examine diligently, but it is rare.

for under $200, but at least not as hard as finding Zhuni!

Zhuni is not hard to find, just not under 200. That said, I found Zhuni to be the least worth getting in terms of what they do for tea. Their main appeal is that they are pretty and become prettier with time and are good for the very best teas. But all the other clays will make much more difference to the tea for the better or worse.

[maple]

which is 60'?

The bottom one the spout gives it away Nice pots!

haha~~ correct. the curve reveal everything. some elder collector claimed this lot is supervised by master GU. And it's why people give it higher price.

[Andrew S]

On this overall topic, I was wondering...

Is there any particular reason why F1 teapot shapes tended to become somewhat less elegant over the years?

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

[Bok]

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

That’s my best guess as well, mass production. Filling quotas rather than fulfilling artistic visions. Possibly also a few of the best craftsmen might have been purged, or sent elsewhere during the cultural revolution?

[Youzi]

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

That’s my best guess as well, mass production. Filling quotas rather than fulfilling artistic visions. Possibly also a few of the best craftsmen might have been purged, or sent elsewhere during the cultural revolution?

+1. Pretty much. Communism doesn't like art and culture and anything else than brutalism.

[maple]

On this overall topic, I was wondering...

Is there any particular reason why F1 teapot shapes tended to become somewhat less elegant over the years?

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

1966~1976 - Cultural Revolution - not sure it's reason or not. (oops~~just saw Bok have same comment.. haha)

[steanze]

Yes, agreed, best to not listen to the conventional wisdom, more often than not it is wrong, or at the very least there are enough exceptions to do so.

I have brewed Gaoshan in everything from porcelain, zhuni, hongni, various zini and duanni, no obvious no go, it depends on the pot and what you like. Arguably porcelain the most boring. I did also like Kobiwako, it has been similar to Duanni for me. Chaozhou can work as well.

Problem is, it needs a lot of tuition pots and luck to find the good match.

I still disagree with this. There is a lot to conventional wisdom, and gaoshan in zini / duanni is often not very good.

[steanze]

On this overall topic, I was wondering...

Is there any particular reason why F1 teapot shapes tended to become somewhat less elegant over the years?

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

From 1958 to the mid-late 1960s production volume was smaller, the work could be done by a smaller number of workers, and many of them were trained by very good craftsmen. in the 70s the volume increases, the workmanship gets a bit sloppier. In the 80s you have simpler pots for which the workmanship is not very good, but also some xiao ming jia pot that can be a bit more elaborate and workmanship is a bit better. It is not a simple overall decline, but if you take the basic shuiping then yes it gets worse over time. I think in the mid-late 80s better craftsmen were involved in producing more elaborate shapes.

[Chadrinkincat]

On this overall topic, I was wondering...

Is there any particular reason why F1 teapot shapes tended to become somewhat less elegant over the years?

Or was it simply that they became less focussed on artistry and more focussed on mass production?

Andrew

From 1958 to the mid-late 1960s production volume was smaller, the work could be done by a smaller number of workers, and many of them were trained by very good craftsmen. in the 70s the volume increases, the workmanship gets a bit sloppier. In the 80s you have simpler pots for which the workmanship is not very good, but also some xiao ming jia pot that can be a bit more elaborate and workmanship is a bit better. It is not a simple overall decline, but if you take the basic shuiping then yes it gets worse over time. I think in the mid-late 80s better craftsmen were involved in producing more elaborate shapes.

Do you know if any of these XMJ pots were fully handmade? Or is it just that the pots are a bit more refined due to better craftsman?

This is a pot which I assume is considered a XMJ pot since It was produced by 謝曼倫 Xie Man Lun (provincial master level?). The craftsmanship seems above average compared to the other examples of this design I’ve seen from this period.

[steanze]

Do you know if any of these XMJ pots were fully handmade? Or is it just that the pots are a bit more refined due to better craftsman?

This is a pot which I assume is considered a XMJ pot since It was produced by 謝曼倫 Xie Man Lun (provincial master level?). The craftsmanship seems above average compared to the other examples of this design I’ve seen from this period.

usually half hand to my knowledge...
I would not consider that pot a XMJ pot, XMJ is usually used to refer to later shapes, that one is one of the earlier more classical F1 shapes already seen in the 1970s. USually XMJ don't have the 4 character ZGYX seal, they have the author's seal.

[Chadrinkincat]

@steanze

I thought XMJ referred to 80’s pots that carried a seal from a higher ranked potter but not a unique design created by this potter.

Would something like this be classified as XMJ? http://zishaartgallery.com/product/三足圆竹壶/

Also do you have any links that discuss these type of pots?

[mael]

steanze

Thanks for info. $1200 is close to what I was expecting from ZAG.

Is there significant difference between this lighter early 70’s zini and late 70’s? I assume it is less desirable that the jiazini right?

Which is 60' and which is 70'? [left-upper and right-bottom are darker. other twos are lighter.]


which is 60'?


in my limited experience. Yes, most of 70' are lighter. But not for all. And yes, it's (60') a little different presenting in brewing (o). but price.....(x)

the detail photo for only 60' in these four.

You seem to know a lot about those pots, I don't know what to think about this one :

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Colour seems lighter but it may be the picture, inside of the pot looks rude, four character seal.

Could it be green label ?

[maple]

You seem to know a lot about those pots, I don't know what to think about this one :


Colour seems lighter but it may be the picture, inside of the pot looks rude, four character seal.

Could it be green label ?

I'm not expert for these ~ i spent more time on Shuipin. You can reference more information on Prof. Lu's book.

Normally, 198x have 14 holes inside. And 196x~70 have 18. It's the significantly different (stamp/ mud/ fire/ curve also).

:pp it's easy to tell.

[steanze]

You seem to know a lot about those pots, I don't know what to think about this one :


Colour seems lighter but it may be the picture, inside of the pot looks rude, four character seal.

Could it be green label ?

These look like product photos, is this a pot you own?

[mael]

No I didn't get it, I was not willing to pay a lot for it as I am not sure what it is.