Claims about HLS/vintage/zhuni clay in modern teapots

[steanze]

Well, on one hand, I personally prefer mixed clay pots, Cuvé but on the other hand I like to collect teapots made of rare ores. So if it's a rare ore, then I'd prefer to have it pure. Otherwise, if I want an awesome pot for daily use, and drinking tea, and looks, color, then I'd opt for Masterfully Mixed clays instead

Yes, I think both are interesting in their own right. Rare ores have their own special beauty, and it is nice to see how they transform as they develop their patina.
I wonder how many rare ores are still out there yet to be explored.

[TeaTotaling]

@steanze and @Youzi Interesting. What would be some examples of rare ores?

[Youzi]

steanze and Youzi Interesting. What would be some examples of rare ores?

Definitely most of Da Shui Tan ores, like DST Qing Hui Ni, DST Tian Qing Ni, DST Li Pi Ni, DST Tuanni.

From Hongni: Da Hong Ni
From Lüni: Zhuni Lüni, Muo Lüni ( the ore is black)

Tuanni: Zhuni Tuanni.

Others: Shi Huang, Shi Hong, Xiao Hong Ni, Zhaozhuang Qing Ni

These are the ones which come to my mind without looking up ores in The Book.

[steanze]

steanze and Youzi Interesting. What would be some examples of rare ores?

In my view there are a few things to consider when discussing "rare" ores. First of all, many yixing ores might actually be quite abundant in other parts of the world. Second, even when something is rare, it does not make it automatically good So we need to ask, which ores are both rare and beautiful? Third, a lot of the final result depends on clay processing, workmanship, and firing. So the question to ask is also: how was the ore processed? Fourth, the ore needs to match the aesthetics of the teapot, and the teapot itself needs to be well made and have a tasteful design. An ugly teapot made of a rare ore is not very interesting, one might as well buy some Tanzanite. Finally, there are different batches of the same ore, and they are not all the same. So even if a teapot is really made of a given ore, it might be a bit different from the batch of ore that was used for a different teapot.

I guess part of what I am saying is that it's hard to evaluate an ore without talking about how it's been turned into teapots - after all nobody would care much about zhuni if it had been used as filler for holes in the yard and not as the material for stunning teapots. So this inevitably ends up becoming a conversations about not just ores, but also clays, and pots.

Many of the ores Youzi mentioned are rare and interesting. Personally my favorite among "rare" ores is Benshan Lv Ni as seen in some late Qing to ROC teapots. In terms of existing amount in the ground, there might be other ores that are more rare, but often they are only a bit different from another ore that is more abundant. A good Benshan Lv Ni has a beautiful jade-like transparency, it feels hard as a rock at the touch and soft as velvet at sight, there aren't many alternatives with those properties that one can easily find.

[Bok]

steanze and Youzi Interesting. What would be some examples of rare ores?

In my view there are a few things to consider when discussing "rare" ores. First of all, many yixing ores might actually be quite abundant in other parts of the world. Second, even when something is rare, it does not make it automatically good So we need to ask, which ores are both rare and beautiful? Third, a lot of the final result depends on clay processing, workmanship, and firing. So the question to ask is also: how was the ore processed? Fourth, the ore needs to match the aesthetics of the teapot, and the teapot itself needs to be well made and have a tasteful design. An ugly teapot made of a rare ore is not very interesting, one might as well buy some Tanzanite. Finally, there are different batches of the same ore, and they are not all the same. So even if a teapot is really made of a given ore, it might be a bit different from the batch of ore that was used for a different teapot.

I guess part of what I am saying is that it's hard to evaluate an ore without talking about how it's been turned into teapots - after all nobody would care much about zhuni if it had been used as filler for holes in the yard and not as the material for stunning teapots. So this inevitably ends up becoming a conversations about not just ores, but also clays, and pots.

Many of the ores Youzi mentioned are rare and interesting. Personally my favorite among "rare" ores is Benshan Lv Ni as seen in some late Qing to ROC teapots. In terms of existing amount in the ground, there might be other ores that are more rare, but often they are only a bit different from another ore that is more abundant. A good Benshan Lv Ni has a beautiful jade-like transparency, it feels hard as a rock at the touch and soft as velvet at sight, there aren't many alternatives with those properties that one can easily find.

I wish I could my thoughts as well in writing as you do! Chapeau!

[steanze]

I wish I could my thoughts as well in writing as you do! Chapeau!

Thank you

[Victoria]

Beautifully expressed @steanze, thank you. Art is not made of clay alone ...but good to know a few things about it .

[Youzi]

As @steanze said, and I can't repeat enough. The sub type of the ore doesn't really matter, it's more just a personal preference, interest.

What matters for tea drinking 90% of the time is processing, firing, building and the main ore category.

If collecting rare ores is not your hobby or interest, or looking for strange colors, then it's useless for you to chase those.

[steanze]

As steanze said, and I can't repeat enough. The sub type of the ore doesn't really matter, it's more just a personal preference, interest.

What matters for tea drinking 90% of the time is processing, firing, building and the main ore category.

If collecting rare ores is not your hobby or interest, or looking for strange colors, then it's useless for you to chase those.

And I guess the other part of it is, it's interesting and fun to see the effect of different ores on tea, and how they turn out once they develop a patina. But suppose there is an ore that was used to make certain particular teapots, that was processed and worked in a way that produced a stunning result, and as a consequence became well known/acquired a reputation. If that is what you are interested in, you would want to acquire a teapot that doesn't just have the same name, but that achieved that kind of final result. Maybe one way to say it is that you'll want that ore processed and worked in a way that really shows what that ore can become.

[TeaTotaling]

@steanze Knocked it out of the park again!!

Great elaboration, clarification, and professional insight. I guess what I should have asked, is what clays perform best with a given tea? Clay purity, performance, and quality are my top priorities, next to pure tea leaves. I highly enjoy learning about all things clay and tea. As you stated many different factors influence this outcome. Slightly dizzying, but you, @Youzi, and @Bok have enlightened my understanding.

[TeaTotaling]

As steanze said, and I can't repeat enough. The sub type of the ore doesn't really matter, it's more just a personal preference, interest.

What matters for tea drinking 90% of the time is processing, firing, building and the main ore category.

If collecting rare ores is not your hobby or interest, or looking for strange colors, then it's useless for you to chase those.

And I guess the other part of it is, it's interesting and fun to see the effect of different ores on tea, and how they turn out once they develop a patina. But suppose there is an ore that was used to make certain particular teapots, that was processed and worked in a way that produced a stunning result, and as a consequence became well known/acquired a reputation. If that is what you are interested in, you would want to acquire a teapot that doesn't just have the same name, but that achieved that kind of final result. Maybe one way to say it is that you'll want that ore processed and worked in a way that really shows what that ore can become.

100%. This is my search and desire!

[Youzi]

steanze Knocked it out of the park again!!

Great elaboration, clarification, and professional insight. I guess what I should have asked, is what clays perform best with a given tea? Clay purity, performance, and quality are my top priorities, next to pure tea leaves. I highly enjoy learning about all things clay and tea. As you stated many different factors influence this outcome. Slightly dizzying, but you, Youzi, and Bok have enlightened my understanding.

What determines the effect on tea is mainly the porosity, porous structure and the heat retention of the teapot.
So, when you buy a teapot and want to know the effect on tea, ask these questions from the seller:

1. Main ore type
2. Firing Temp
3. Number of firings
4. Mesh number
5. Was the vacuum machine used during the processing of the clay?
6. Full hand or half hand?

After this, look at the shape and the size, and try to imagine the cooling curve of the teapot, how well it'll retain heat, wall thickness, etc.

From these you should be able to guess what effect the teapot probably will have.

[TeaTotaling]

@Youzi Perfect, thank you! Exactly what I needed!