Puzzled wannabe Yixing buyer

[faj]

So, after skimming this thread, I wonder: did you ever end up buying an Yixing pot?

I did purchase a modern Yixing pot (simple, classic shape, half-handmade). I have nothing bad do say about it, but for lack of experience with better Yixing teapots, I cannot say much except that it did not seem to harm any tea I have tried with it. I really should do a few head-to-head comparisons to at least contrast it with my other (Japanese) teapots, which I am beginning to know a bit better because I have used them often with the same teas and parameters.

For now I drink mostly Japanese teas, and I have not felt the urge to get more Yixing pots. I have not reached the point where I would consider paying the price of antiques or top-shelf modern pots, but that may come as my drinking evolves and I gain experience.

[archimon]

So, after skimming this thread, I wonder: did you ever end up buying an Yixing pot?

I did purchase a modern Yixing pot (simple, classic shape, half-handmade). I have nothing bad do say about it, but for lack of experience with better Yixing teapots, I cannot say much except that it did not seem to harm any tea I have tried with it. I really should do a few head-to-head comparisons to at least contrast it with my other (Japanese) teapots, which I am beginning to know a bit better because I have used them often with the same teas and parameters.

For now I drink mostly Japanese teas, and I have not felt the urge to get more Yixing pots. I have not reached the point where I would consider paying the price of antiques or top-shelf modern pots, but that may come as my drinking evolves and I gain experience.

Thanks for letting me know how things ended, haha! You say it hasn't done any harm to your teas, but do you think it's done much to help them? I haven't had much Japanese tea personally, but I have a fairly inexpensive Gyokko kyusu sitting around for when I do. Still, I'm planning to grab a Nosaka pot from Hojo for Oolong, so maybe Japanese teaware, anyway, will keep me from jumping down the vintage Yixing rabbit hole for a little while even if my tea-drinking habits won't

[faj]

Thanks for letting me know how things ended, haha! You say it hasn't done any harm to your teas, but do you think it's done much to help them?

In my experience, the right teapot will bring a little something extra that adds to the experience, but when a teapot makes too big a difference, it tends to be for the worse. And a teapot will not compensate for bad water or make otherwise poor tea good, let alone great. A fine teapot will not save you money by getting good results from so-so leaf ; rather, it will make you spend more money by making your experience with good teas just a bit better.

Though really not being a collector at heart, I have found teapots to be satisfying to look at and manipulate for reasons I will not try to fully explain. There is a reason people tend to collect them. TAD is real. Run away while you still can...

I haven't had much Japanese tea personally, but I have a fairly inexpensive Gyokko kyusu sitting around for when I do.

My first kyusu was from Gyokko. Ever since getting my first pots from Hojo, I have stopped using it. Its clay is too muting to my taste (it is a kind of grayish-yellow clay). Every time I have given it a chance, I was reminded why it had fallen out of favor to start with. In addition to that, while it is entirely fine for what it is, it is not as nice to use as the other ones I have gotten since.

[TeaTotaling]

Though really not being a collector at heart, I have found teapots to be satisfying to look at and manipulate for reasons I will not try to fully explain. There is a reason people tend to collect them. TAD is real. Run away while you still can...

@archimon If there is any advice you take, it would be wise to adhere to this. The slope is slippery, the hole runs deep, you might not make it out. If nobody hears from me over an extended period of time, well, I might be too far gone. Farewell friends.

"Trying to save my soul tonight
Oh, it's nobody's fault but mine."
🕳

[OCTO]

Though really not being a collector at heart, I have found teapots to be satisfying to look at and manipulate for reasons I will not try to fully explain. There is a reason people tend to collect them. TAD is real. Run away while you still can...

archimon If there is any advice you take, it would be wise to adhere to this. The slope is slippery, the hole runs deep, you might not make it out. If nobody hears from me over an extended period of time, well, I might be too far gone. Farewell friends.

"Trying to save my soul tonight
Oh, it's nobody's fault but mine."
🕳

LOL!!... @TeaTotaling you're already swimming at the deeper end!!.... No harm taking a deeper dive.... We will welcome you with open arms!!.... hahahahahaha......

[archimon]

In my experience, the right teapot will bring a little something extra that adds to the experience, but when a teapot makes too big a difference, it tends to be for the worse. And a teapot will not compensate for bad water or make otherwise poor tea good, let alone great. A fine teapot will not save you money by getting good results from so-so leaf ; rather, it will make you spend more money by making your experience with good teas just a bit better.

Though really not being a collector at heart, I have found teapots to be satisfying to look at and manipulate for reasons I will not try to fully explain. There is a reason people tend to collect them. TAD is real. Run away while you still can...

Although it certainly would be nice to save a bit of money on the tea itself, I suppose the ultimate goal is to have the best tea-drinking experience possible. The rabbit hole vibes are pretty strong, though I have to imagine with an expensive new teapot, particularly if devoted only to a single type of tea, it truly is only a matter of time before one feels the need to find it some friends!

My first kyusu was from Gyokko. Ever since getting my first pots from Hojo, I have stopped using it. Its clay is too muting to my taste (it is a kind of grayish-yellow clay). Every time I have given it a chance, I was reminded why it had fallen out of favor to start with. In addition to that, while it is entirely fine for what it is, it is not as nice to use as the other ones I have gotten since.

After a warning, some enabling I think my Gyokko is a bit different, and perhaps less porous. Maybe i'll end up throwing some sencha into the Nosaka to compare.... So it begins, i suppose

Here's the Gyokko pot (mine's the one on the right, the 170ml one):

[faj]

I think my Gyokko is a bit different, and perhaps less porous.

Your kyusu is obviously very different (wood fired?). My comment was only valid for mine, not intended as a general remark about all Gyokko teapots.

[TeaTotaling]

@OCTO Right! I’m definitely treading water in the deep end, no doubt. Stop grabbing at my leg to pull me under, though I know misery loves company down in the depths.

PS I may have another one on the way, strange times. Sinking slowly.

[OCTO]

OCTO Right! I’m definitely treading water in the deep end, no doubt. Stop grabbing at my leg to pull me under, though I know misery loves company down in the depths.

PS I may have another one on the way, strange times. Sinking slowly.

@TeaTotaling

I'm just down here waiting for you..... enjoy the decent...... you'll be here in no time.... hahahahaha..... I'll keep the seat warm for you.

[orange]

However, in my current state, I already moved on to sourcing directly from Yixing and support the younger generation who still care about their clay, and not just sales numbers.

I hope the hundreds of years of tradition can continue, and the only way to make it possible is by supporting the next generation. This world is a capitalist democracy, and you vote with your money. If no-one wants the buy good quality, traditionally made Yixing teapots, then there'll only be fakes left, for the future.

This is absolutely true.

I have read many times that all the best clay is "extinct". This is a very sad point of view, because it means the best pots have all been made, and an increasing population of amateurs will have to live with a dwindling supply of good teapots. It is sad, and it seems totally implausible to me.

While some high-quality clay mines may have ceased their operations or been depleted, and there might have been a tendency for quality to deteriorate in some time periods in Yixing, one must realize clay is really, really abundant on earth. There is no doubt in my mind the best clay is still underground, and the high economic value of good clay (probably higher than at any point in history) warrants its discovery and extraction, both near Yixing and elsewhere. Teapot making ultimately requires very little material in the grand scheme of things compared to other uses of mineral resources.

I cannot see any reason the market would "run out" of good clay for teapot making, as long as people are willing to pay a decent amount of money and demand quality clay from potters. This is a bit like saying the market has run out of new good works of art because all the best art humankind had to offer is behind us. The fact collectors are willing to pay so much for vintage works of arts by famous artists does not mean no quality art pieces are being made today.

This does not mean all modern clay teapots are good. But I would be hopeful that there are a a great many fabulous quality products left to be produced by humankind.

There are a lot of sense here. There are indeed lots of confusion in the YiXing zisha teapot art; often it is because there are various kinds of vested business interests. For example, people who have vintage pots (or stockpiled clay) will say such and such clay is extinct or these pots are better. People who are making new pots will say that the old clays were not better; just the ones easier to get to (like old zhuni, that sat on the surface of the mines); old processing/firing methods were not better etc. DiCaoQing clay is by definition those found at the bottom of some mines (e.g. #4 mine). There may be a huge stockpile of processed zisha clay; and whatever is still underground.

Consider this for comparison : "When will we run out of crude oil? It's estimated that known oil-deposits will run out by 2052. Realistically, we may never run out of oil because, given the depth of the Earth's core, there will be new wells to discover."

There also seems to be a bias in these forum towards using very small teapots (<120 ml) for making Gongfu tea. That's ok for certain kinds of tea leaves (e.g. some kind of ChaoZhou tea or Shou Pu), but I find them too small for Sheng Pu. But lots of vintage pots were made small, maybe because it was technically difficult to make bigger (zhuni) pots.

ZiSha art is definitely still young and developing and we are all still learning and having lots of fun.

[Sunyata]

The myth that good zisha clay is going extinct is a myth. The reason why the government shuts down and restricts uninhibited mining in certain areas is to prevent people from sun-drying/airing the ores everywhere along streets and roads. Such ores require months of "ageing" before they can be shaped and fired. Furthermore, it is easier for regulation and accountability. Let me make this clear - there are no ores are within the huanglongshan mountain. Every ore that is mined is underneath the mountain. You think that this yixing craze which is no more than a couple of decades old is going to deplete all of the ores? Back in the mid-20th century, people in China were terribly poor and struggling to make ends meet. Do you think the craftsmanship and demand were there? Thats the second myth - old zisha isn't necessarily better than new zisha. For sure, there are well-made zisha, but those are made pre 20th century.