Global Tea Hut

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Demea
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:26 pm

Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:15 am

foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:12 am
If looking for something made more cleanly, I might recommend the "Starry Sky" pots they have - I've handled those and the craftsmanship is very refined.
Do you happen to know how big those "starry sky" pots are?
foldedleaves
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:58 am

I believe they're around 140ml, if memory serves.
Demea wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:15 am
foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:12 am
If looking for something made more cleanly, I might recommend the "Starry Sky" pots they have - I've handled those and the craftsmanship is very refined.
Do you happen to know how big those "starry sky" pots are?
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Tillerman
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm

Hidden_leaf wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 pm
In terms of the tea quality I agree with Tertti. The teas are clean or as gth puts it "living." The tea they provide is free of pesticides and often are free of fertilizers, and are seed propegated. Seed propegated meaning that the plant is allowed to reproduce as nature intended rather than rely on clones. I find it interesting as well that gth and wu de isnt meantioned more frequently in the forums. I was skeptical at first as well but now he is the only source i trust when it comes to chinese/taiwanese tea and teaware. Wu de held a workshop in nyc last summer and i figured I would finnaly see what he is all about. My girlfriend and I were in Taiwan at the tea sage hut months later. If wu de is in your area do yourself a favor and see his approach for yourself. I 100% urge you to experiment with his expansion packs, read thr magazine, drink his monthly teas, invest in his carefully sourced teaware. All the money supports the magazine, the current tea center, and the future tea institute "light meets life". Any gth member can visit his center in taiwan for 10 day intervals. I appologize for ranting but I am passionate about the subject and i dont want to be shy about my stance. I was skeptical but now i am filled with joy when i get to share gth with people.
I really cannot buy into the notion that seed propagation is in any way superior to vegetative propagation. Apart from the development of a tap root, the plants are indistinguishable. There is no difference in the qualities of the leaf or in the tea they produce (given a conscientious and skilled farmer.)
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Brent D
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:33 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:23 pm

I just went and read one of the back issues. That alone was probably worth the $20.
signed up on my way out ;)
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Bok
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am

Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:54 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm
I really cannot buy into the notion that seed propagation is in any way superior to vegetative propagation. Apart from the development of a tap root, the plants are indistinguishable. There is no difference in the qualities of the leaf or in the tea they produce (given a conscientious and skilled farmer.)
Probably more philosophical than rational/scientific thinking :mrgreen:
foldedleaves
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm
Hidden_leaf wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 pm
In terms of the tea quality I agree with Tertti. The teas are clean or as gth puts it "living." The tea they provide is free of pesticides and often are free of fertilizers, and are seed propegated. Seed propegated meaning that the plant is allowed to reproduce as nature intended rather than rely on clones. I find it interesting as well that gth and wu de isnt meantioned more frequently in the forums. I was skeptical at first as well but now he is the only source i trust when it comes to chinese/taiwanese tea and teaware. Wu de held a workshop in nyc last summer and i figured I would finnaly see what he is all about. My girlfriend and I were in Taiwan at the tea sage hut months later. If wu de is in your area do yourself a favor and see his approach for yourself. I 100% urge you to experiment with his expansion packs, read thr magazine, drink his monthly teas, invest in his carefully sourced teaware. All the money supports the magazine, the current tea center, and the future tea institute "light meets life". Any gth member can visit his center in taiwan for 10 day intervals. I appologize for ranting but I am passionate about the subject and i dont want to be shy about my stance. I was skeptical but now i am filled with joy when i get to share gth with people.
I really cannot buy into the notion that seed propagation is in any way superior to vegetative propagation. Apart from the development of a tap root, the plants are indistinguishable. There is no difference in the qualities of the leaf or in the tea they produce (given a conscientious and skilled farmer.)
Maybe not in terms of the individual plant, but in terms of the whole crop health sexual propagation is absolutely superior to asexual propagation. A genetically homogenous population is more susceptible to diseases and pests, which leads to the use of agrochemicals. The use of agrochemicals limits the biodiversity of the environment in which the tea is grown and degrades the land. Tea is a product of it's land and environment. While one might not notice a difference in quality within a generation or two, over time it can make a significant difference.

Ethics do play a role as well - would you rather drink a tea whose methods degrade the environment or one whose methods respect it?
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Tillerman
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Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:41 pm

foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 pm
Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm
Hidden_leaf wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:18 pm
In terms of the tea quality I agree with Tertti. The teas are clean or as gth puts it "living." The tea they provide is free of pesticides and often are free of fertilizers, and are seed propegated. Seed propegated meaning that the plant is allowed to reproduce as nature intended rather than rely on clones. I find it interesting as well that gth and wu de isnt meantioned more frequently in the forums. I was skeptical at first as well but now he is the only source i trust when it comes to chinese/taiwanese tea and teaware. Wu de held a workshop in nyc last summer and i figured I would finnaly see what he is all about. My girlfriend and I were in Taiwan at the tea sage hut months later. If wu de is in your area do yourself a favor and see his approach for yourself. I 100% urge you to experiment with his expansion packs, read thr magazine, drink his monthly teas, invest in his carefully sourced teaware. All the money supports the magazine, the current tea center, and the future tea institute "light meets life". Any gth member can visit his center in taiwan for 10 day intervals. I appologize for ranting but I am passionate about the subject and i dont want to be shy about my stance. I was skeptical but now i am filled with joy when i get to share gth with people.
I really cannot buy into the notion that seed propagation is in any way superior to vegetative propagation. Apart from the development of a tap root, the plants are indistinguishable. There is no difference in the qualities of the leaf or in the tea they produce (given a conscientious and skilled farmer.)
Maybe not in terms of the individual plant, but in terms of the whole crop health sexual propagation is absolutely superior to asexual propagation. A genetically homogenous population is more susceptible to diseases and pests, which leads to the use of agrochemicals. The use of agrochemicals limits the biodiversity of the environment in which the tea is grown and degrades the land. Tea is a product of it's land and environment. While one might not notice a difference in quality within a generation or two, over time it can make a significant difference.

Ethics do play a role as well - would you rather drink a tea whose methods degrade the environment or one whose methods respect it?
You have established a false dichotomy in your last sentence by implying that someone who farms a vegetatively propagated crop is necessarily unethical. That is not so.

As to the rest, there are noted disadvantages to the seed propagation method as well viz. that tea is a notorious outcrosser and it does not breed to type. For example, Hong Yu (TTES # 18) will, within a couple of generations, cease to be Hong Yu. It will have become something else, maybe very good but nonetheless different (BTW the Hong Yu offerings from those claiming to offer tea only from seed propagated plants are misleading at best.) In the end, the grower will decide which way to go based on their own needs (e.g. sometimes the tap root is preferred) but it isn't the case that one method or the other produces better tea. Neither method is superior to the other.
foldedleaves
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:28 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:41 pm
foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 pm
Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:52 pm


I really cannot buy into the notion that seed propagation is in any way superior to vegetative propagation. Apart from the development of a tap root, the plants are indistinguishable. There is no difference in the qualities of the leaf or in the tea they produce (given a conscientious and skilled farmer.)
Maybe not in terms of the individual plant, but in terms of the whole crop health sexual propagation is absolutely superior to asexual propagation. A genetically homogenous population is more susceptible to diseases and pests, which leads to the use of agrochemicals. The use of agrochemicals limits the biodiversity of the environment in which the tea is grown and degrades the land. Tea is a product of it's land and environment. While one might not notice a difference in quality within a generation or two, over time it can make a significant difference.

Ethics do play a role as well - would you rather drink a tea whose methods degrade the environment or one whose methods respect it?
You have established a false dichotomy in your last sentence by implying that someone who farms a vegetatively propagated crop is necessarily unethical. That is not so.

As to the rest, there are noted disadvantages to the seed propagation method as well viz. that tea is a notorious outcrosser and it does not breed to type. For example, Hong Yu (TTES # 18) will, within a couple of generations, cease to be Hong Yu. It will have become something else, maybe very good but nonetheless different (BTW the Hong Yu offerings from those claiming to offer tea only from seed propagated plants are misleading at best.) In the end, the grower will decide which way to go based on their own needs (e.g. sometimes the tap root is preferred) but it isn't the case that one method or the other produces better tea. Neither method is superior to the other.
I think you're correct - I did muddy the waters with my statement on ethics. My apologies for that.

I think it also depends on one's definition of "superiority". Because you're absolutely right - over time seed propagation leads to change, and if my aim is to maintain a particular genetic (and in doing so, phenotypic) profile, then vegetative propagation is what is needed. However, it is also a fact that this generally leads to greater risk with regard to disease and pests, as well as shortened lifespan. Which again, often leads to the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers. With the sustainability and environmental responsibility focus of Global Tea Hut, it also makes sense that they would recommend seed propagated tea from biodiverse environments and to view those teas, from a perspective extending beyond just aroma, mouth feel, etc, as "superior" (though I don't know that I've ever seen that word used).

I appreciate the respectful tone in the face of my inelegant argument, Tillerman.🙏
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Tillerman
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Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:20 am

foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:28 pm
Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:41 pm
foldedleaves wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:07 pm


Maybe not in terms of the individual plant, but in terms of the whole crop health sexual propagation is absolutely superior to asexual propagation. A genetically homogenous population is more susceptible to diseases and pests, which leads to the use of agrochemicals. The use of agrochemicals limits the biodiversity of the environment in which the tea is grown and degrades the land. Tea is a product of it's land and environment. While one might not notice a difference in quality within a generation or two, over time it can make a significant difference.

Ethics do play a role as well - would you rather drink a tea whose methods degrade the environment or one whose methods respect it?
You have established a false dichotomy in your last sentence by implying that someone who farms a vegetatively propagated crop is necessarily unethical. That is not so.

As to the rest, there are noted disadvantages to the seed propagation method as well viz. that tea is a notorious outcrosser and it does not breed to type. For example, Hong Yu (TTES # 18) will, within a couple of generations, cease to be Hong Yu. It will have become something else, maybe very good but nonetheless different (BTW the Hong Yu offerings from those claiming to offer tea only from seed propagated plants are misleading at best.) In the end, the grower will decide which way to go based on their own needs (e.g. sometimes the tap root is preferred) but it isn't the case that one method or the other produces better tea. Neither method is superior to the other.
I think you're correct - I did muddy the waters with my statement on ethics. My apologies for that.

I think it also depends on one's definition of "superiority". Because you're absolutely right - over time seed propagation leads to change, and if my aim is to maintain a particular genetic (and in doing so, phenotypic) profile, then vegetative propagation is what is needed. However, it is also a fact that this generally leads to greater risk with regard to disease and pests, as well as shortened lifespan. Which again, often leads to the use of pesticides and chemical fertilizers. With the sustainability and environmental responsibility focus of Global Tea Hut, it also makes sense that they would recommend seed propagated tea from biodiverse environments and to view those teas, from a perspective extending beyond just aroma, mouth feel, etc, as "superior" (though I don't know that I've ever seen that word used).

I appreciate the respectful tone in the face of my inelegant argument, Tillerman.🙏
And I yours. Thank you.
.m.
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:16 am

Btw. the seed propagation claim is made i think only their "wild teas", where it is already implied by the name. :lol:
foldedleaves
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:39 pm

Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:27 pm

.m. wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:16 am
Btw. the seed propagation claim is made i think only their "wild teas", where it is already implied by the name. :lol:
I've actually visited a few farms (two in Anhui, one in Nantou) with folks from Global Tea Hut that use seed propagation in the context of more traditional agriculture. So, seed propagation does not only apply to wild grown teas.🙂
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joelbct
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:14 pm

Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:48 pm

wildisthewind wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:53 am
As for the actual teas. Some are truly outstanding (and amazing finds), like the recent Keemun and Yixing reds, whereas some are not really all that interesting (which jars with how hard they cheerlead), like this month's Shou or the "Elevation" Taiwanese Assam they praise so fiercely.
I had dismissed GTH right about at finding Your offer to Light Meets Life where Price should be. Am not currently in the market for dogma. But "truly outstanding" Keemun sparks interest. Is it available without a "subscription?"
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CWarren
Posts: 159
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:36 pm

Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:12 am

joelbct wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:48 pm
wildisthewind wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:53 am
As for the actual teas. Some are truly outstanding (and amazing finds), like the recent Keemun and Yixing reds, whereas some are not really all that interesting (which jars with how hard they cheerlead), like this month's Shou or the "Elevation" Taiwanese Assam they praise so fiercely.
I had dismissed GTH right about at finding Your offer to Light Meets Life where Price should be. Am not currently in the market for dogma. But "truly outstanding" Keemun sparks interest. Is it available without a "subscription?"
You can buy their Light Meets Life Teas without a subscription for as little as the minimum donation listed and up depending on your interest in helping the center or just getting the Teas at minimum price. The monthly tea tins that come with the magazine each month are by subscription though they can be purchased if available/still some left after sending out member’s envelopes by request.
.m.
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:32 am

I don't think there's any pressure to pay more than the suggested price or to join the organization. I've ordered their liu an last year, and i'm more than happy with it. It was a very good tea for a fair price.
wildisthewind
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:27 am

Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:04 am

joelbct wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:48 pm
wildisthewind wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:53 am
As for the actual teas. Some are truly outstanding (and amazing finds), like the recent Keemun and Yixing reds, whereas some are not really all that interesting (which jars with how hard they cheerlead), like this month's Shou or the "Elevation" Taiwanese Assam they praise so fiercely.
I had dismissed GTH right about at finding Your offer to Light Meets Life where Price should be. Am not currently in the market for dogma. But "truly outstanding" Keemun sparks interest. Is it available without a "subscription?"
Most aren't, but it actually was, for like $60/jin + shipping. Sadly, I had just joined at that point, and by the time I decided to buy some it was sold out. It was delicious, chocolatey and oily (which sounds bad, but was actually delightful). It was a processing style I don't see often, kind of partially rolled. Tea Drunk refers to that as "Song Luo", but I can't seem to find that usage anywhere else with a google search. She says:
Song Luo is name of a legendary tea from Ming Dynasty. One of the fascinating things about Chinese culture is the continuity of sentiments through things that transcends time, such as the language itself. Though Song Luo is a tea that has ceased to exist for centuries, the name and the location of where this tea once was produced, still carries sentimental value from its glorious days. Nowadays Song Luo is used to call teas that are made into pearl shape, green or red. Note that even though like Mao Feng, this is a style named after a famous tea, the original tea no longer exist and frankly we are not even sure if it was ever pearl shape.
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