Liu Bao recommendations

faj
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:02 pm

After going through the Liu Bao samples I purchased from Essence of Tea, which were a very enjoyable first experience with LB, I feel ready for further exploration.

I have not seen that many Liu Bao vendors mentioned on the forum, and have not been able to find threads discussing recommendations (sorry if I missed them). Do you have suggestions, experiences or recommendations to share, either for vendors or products, that a new Liu Bao drinker like me might want to try or avoid?

As a reference, here are links to the Liu Bao selection of some vendors I found mentioned on the forum.

Essence of Tea
https://essenceoftea.com/collections/liu-bao-tea

Purple Cloud Tea House
https://purplecloudteahouse.com/collections/liu-bao

Legend of Tea
https://legend-of-tea.com.my/Liu-Bao

Kean Guan Tea Merchant
https://www.kgtea.com/collections/dark-tea

Chawang Shop
https://www.chawangshop.com/hei-cha/gua ... o-cha.html

The Steeping Room
https://www.thesteepingroom.com/search?q=liu%20bao*

Lao Tea Shop
https://www.laoteashop.cz/en/?filter_cat_3=67

Teas We Like
https://teaswelike.com/product-category/liubao/

(Edit: added other vendors mentioned in the thread)
Last edited by faj on Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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wave_code
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 pm

Three Cranes/San He is a good brand, as is Wuzhou/CNNP, Duoteli being a sub-brand, those being the biggest two you'll see them the most. Where to start might depend a lot on what you like - do you want things strong and dark, or maybe a bit lighter with more of a black tea sheng character, do you like smokey notes, a bit of funk, so on. then just like pu the rabbit hole goes deeper with "raw" liu baos, storage...

In my experience as a very broad generalization Three Cranes tends to be very good at medium fermentation while the CNNP productions I find I like best are those on the heavier fermentation side. the Duoteli signature character you can pick up on pretty quickly and I really enjoy it.

I've had productions that weren't as good as others, or that maybe still needed some significant aging or saw some less than ideal storage, but so far the only absolute do not even try tea I've come across is the Heng Xian basket that has some cultural revolution drawing on the outside. That stuff is absolutely foul and I feel bad for anyone who tries that and thinks it is what liu bao should be and it would make me question the palette of anyone who would actually sell that tea.

For some quick tips to get started...

Purple Cloud- the 803 is a tea I really enjoy and would definitely recommend for getting a sense of some lighter fermentation style, the Duoteli they have I remember enjoying too, and the Si Jin Quan is also a very distinct flavor that is worth checking out to see if you like. they have a lot of other teas that don't have much info but I'm guessing a lot of those might come from Yin Tai or another smaller factory. I've had the 6918, and its been a while since I sampled it but its pretty average from what I remember. I don't know about that factory's sourcing/pesticides.

Chawang probably offers the best selection in one place for western buys so its great for sampling things. Some highlights for me there are 2014/2018 Ye Yun Gu Shu which is a really nice "raw" style brick, 2015 guangxi first grade for an everyday drinker that is on the dark/heavy side, 2016/2019 mu jiao chen yun brick has some nice smoke and character to it, T1101 for a more refined version of a heavier fermentation, Yuan Ye Da Ye is very sheng-ish.

Another one you can find around from various vendors is the Three Cranes 0207 mini cake which is a nice darker tea for a good price.
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Victoria
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:39 pm

Nice list @faj. Moved topic to Tea/Vendor Discussion & Recommendations forum.
faj
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:57 pm

Thanks @wave_code for your feedback.
wave_code wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 pm
I've had productions that weren't as good as others, or that maybe still needed some significant aging or saw some less than ideal storage
Do you find meaningful differences with Liu Bao that has a bit of age? Essence of Tea carries a few LB from several decades past, the price of which makes a beginner go :shock: , but there seem to be products with 15-20 years of age that are reasonably priced. Are they generally better?
wave_code wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 pm
the Si Jin Quan is also a very distinct flavor that is worth checking out to see if you like.
I purchased the Four Gold Coin from Essence of Tea, I think you are referring to the same brand. It was different from the other ones, maybe more "beety", in the first infusions as least. I found it to perform really well in later infusions (better balance), and was the one with the most stamina. It is rare for me to find a tea for which the best infusions are not the first few, but this one was one of those cases.
wave_code wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:32 pm
I don't know about that factory's sourcing/pesticides.
The cleanliness (in terms of pesticides/heavy metals) of those teas is something I wonder about. I can imagine myself getting significant amounts of a few of these teas once I have a better idea of what I like, and that is cause for some worry. I have not found much information about this.

Thanks!
Chadrinkincat
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:16 pm

Both of these are excellent teas.

https://teaswelike.com/product-category/liubao/
faj
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:14 pm

Chadrinkincat wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:16 pm
Both of these are excellent teas.

https://teaswelike.com/product-category/liubao/
Thanks for mentioning that. Last time I checked, the Malaysian commission was just back in stock and the set I think was out of stock, so I did not list TWL above, but maybe I should have.

I might or might not already have had a cart at TWL's website under considaration with the Malaysian commission in it before creating this thread, and I might or might not, since then, have replaced it with the tasting set. :lol:

At the risk of going a bit off topic, do you have experience with their shou bricks?
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StoneLadle
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:51 pm

Kean Guan in your list above carries their own lines of commissioned LB from CNNP/Duoteli.

Their 15 year (2005) LB in 300g packs is excellent excellent value and a clear example of well stored Malaysian LB.

Legend of Tea pretty much specialises in LB and I stocked up nicely the last time I visited their stand alone store in Ipoh. The 013 is a standout tea for me.
faj
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Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:08 pm

StoneLadle wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:51 pm
Kean Guan in your list above carries their own lines of commissioned LB from CNNP/Duoteli.

Their 15 year (2005) LB in 300g packs is excellent excellent value and a clear example of well stored Malaysian LB.

Legend of Tea pretty much specialises in LB and I stocked up nicely the last time I visited their stand alone store in Ipoh. The 013 is a standout tea for me.
Thanks for the comments. I noticed your posts of these vendors, that is why I included them. About Legend of Tea, I can't seem to find a 013 on their website. Did you mean the 031 which you commented on in another thread?
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StoneLadle
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:11 am

031 it is!...

Their aged LB, well, they seem to only sell aged LB, which is a good thing, are generally reasonably priced and good drinking
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wave_code
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:34 am

As for age... I haven't tried any of the significantly older EOT baskets yet... I'm very keen to though and it on my list of when I have some spare money kicking around to treat myself (so, as it goes something always comes up). for things older than the 90s maybe someone who knows more can offer better insight... but I get the feeling from what I've read that in the time period from the 50s-90s there were a lot of changes that happened between different bigger factories opening and closing and that the more modern production method was developed, so I imagine there is both the general aged tea appeal like why people look for old Pu, but probably also being able to see and taste different methods of processing and production. the oldest I've had is a couple different late 80s teas as well as a few 90s ones.

what I mean more in regards to things needing longer is that some younger LB to me can have this sort of starchy/green taste that I feel like I don't taste in teas that have been around longer. Not to the scale of say how a 1 vs 15 year sheng would taste, but maybe closer to say the same reason someone might want older shou- once the initial piling is gone the tea won't change drastically unless it sees some extreme storage, its more that it will become rounder/smoother, deeper in flavor. also some LB, "raw" ones can have very light fermentation with larger or less broken leaf, and with those I'd imagine you might see more significant changes given enough aging time.

yep- four gold coins, same tea. yeah the heavy earth/beet character that fades into something more lightly roasted and nutty is really nice and I feel pretty unique to that tea and it does have very good longevity compared to a lot of other LB, most of which you aren't looking at tons of infusions like pu. I feel like once I started primarily drinking LB I had to change my ideas about brewing significantly. also I don't know cost wise how it is for you to get shipping to Canada from them, but Lao Shop is also worth checking out. For us here in Europe they offer the best local selection of liu bao I've found and they have quit a few I've really enjoyed, including a '99 production of Four Gold Coins.
faj
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:06 am

wave_code wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:34 am
I feel like once I started primarily drinking LB I had to change my ideas about brewing significantly.
Do you only mean "not expecting as many infusions", or do you mean changing your technique?
wave_code wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:34 am
also I don't know cost wise how it is for you to get shipping to Canada from them, but Lao Shop is also worth checking out. For us here in Europe they offer the best local selection of liu bao I've found and they have quit a few I've really enjoyed, including a '99 production of Four Gold Coins.
Thanks for the suggestion, I added that to the list above. Quickly testing, their "economy" shipping option is basically the same price as what I have paid for EMS from Japan in the past, and their EMS option is more than double that. So yes, shipping is on the expensive side.
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wave_code
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Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:27 am

a bit of both - some LB go much longer than others, the four gold coins or 803 being examples where I tend to get more steeps. a lot of LB though doesn't favor flash steepings like a sheng or oolong might, at least to my taste. I go for longer steeps and fewer but better/stronger infusions. usually I still go for the 5g/100ml ratio but I'll start at 15 seconds after the rinse and then go longer quicker from there. or sometimes I'll do even lower with very long steeps, almost more like what seem to be sencha or darjeeling times and ratios, but thats usually for making a big mug of morning tea or lazy casual brewing with an everyday drinker. since LB was traditionally mainly boiled I think for most averages ones a lot of people seem to go for around 3-4 good infusions then boil it or go for one really long one from there. I've been trying to do more boiling of nearly spent leaves lately and it brings out a lot of different flavors so its a really good tea to experiment with for that. the fact that some LB has very high ratio of stems to leaf I think can also be why it doesn't seem to 'last as long' for typical gong fu style, so maybe some teas might be better with higher ratios? I try to limit my caffeine intake though, plus I find the twiggy character is such a big part of what makes it what it is.

ultimately for me I think its that its really its own really unique and wonderful tea. so much about tea and brewing discussion I think tends to focus on sencha or pu for obvious reasons, and while taking your experience from other teas is helpful I think approaching it with a clean slate and figuring out how it best works for you is a worthwhile investment.

theres been a lot of good teas and stuff about brewing come up lately in the hei cha thread, might be worth digging back through that a bit for tips or ideas.
faj
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Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:09 am

StoneLadle wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:51 pm
Kean Guan in your list above carries their own lines of commissioned LB from CNNP/Duoteli.

Their 15 year (2005) LB in 300g packs is excellent excellent value and a clear example of well stored Malaysian LB.
That tea seems to be out of stock for now, and the cost of shipping to Canada is at least twice that of a bag of the tea (which reflects how affordable the tea is rather than shipping being that expensive). I guess if the tea is good, it is an incredible value at that price. It seems to be their only somewhat aged LB, yet it is no more expensive than the rest of their stuff, and also kind of summarily packaged in brown bags whereas the rest comes in more decorative boxes. Kind of surprising!
StoneLadle wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:51 pm
Legend of Tea pretty much specialises in LB and I stocked up nicely the last time I visited their stand alone store in Ipoh. The 013 is a standout tea for me.
In a previous post, you also mentioned another tea along with the 031, saying it was "something else" and "a keeper" (https://legend-of-tea.com.my/Liu-Bao?product_id=136).

Was that meant as "better than the 031 and worth stocking up upon", or more "different and interesting"?

They do not seem to ship internationally, at least not without going through their customer support.
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StoneLadle
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Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:48 am

@faj

The 15 year LB from KG isn't out of stock as far as I know. Let me check with them when I see them tomorrow.

As for LOT the "other" tea is much more refined than the 031 in terms of flavour and body... It's got the benefit of more age and better quality raw material ...

With both these guys you are not buying branded lineages , you are buying their curation and expertise in the product. Each basket is different and each dealer or merchant does their own storage and gets their tea made to order from the factory...

As for shipping man, that's a tricky one.. it may be an idea to purchase a whole bunch of stuff and just maximise the weight/volume price of shipping ... I'll do a check from my side on parcels to Canada from Malaysia, standby ...
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Balthazar
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Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:33 am

Shipping small quantities from Malaysia has gotten significantly more expensive the last few years (at least to Europe). I think the bulk buying suggestion is a good one.
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