Chanting Pines

[mafoofan]

Hi forum! New here. Thank you in advance for the welcome.

I am looking for a high-quality, modern, fully handmade Yixing teapot. From what I’ve read, at least from a Western perspective, Wuxing Shan Fang Studio is reasonably reputable. My understanding is that Master Zhou charges ~$3,000+ USD per teapot. His wife, Chen Ju Fang, is supposedly also a master but is much lower priced. From what I can tell, the studio used to sell through Essence of Tea.

Chanting Pines, an Australia-based online vendor, now carries their teaware. However, pricing is highly variable dependent on the assigned clay grade (“Bronze”, “Silver”, “Gold”, etc.). I have heard from a separate source that the studio does indeed use different grades of clay, and sets prices accordingly. However, does it make sense that clay quality can drive the price up by over $500 for an otherwise similar pot?

Is the quality of these pots legitimate and respected in China, or is the studio just “online famous” amongst us Westerners?

[DailyTX]

Hi forum! New here. Thank you in advance for the welcome.

I am looking for a high-quality, modern, fully handmade Yixing teapot. From what I’ve read, at least from a Western perspective, Wuxing Shan Fang Studio is reasonably reputable. My understanding is that Master Zhou charges ~$3,000+ USD per teapot. His wife, Chen Ju Fang, is supposedly also a master but is much lower priced. From what I can tell, the studio used to sell through Essence of Tea.

Chanting Pines, an Australia-based online vendor, now carries their teaware. However, pricing is highly variable dependent on the assigned clay grade (“Bronze”, “Silver”, “Gold”, etc.). I have heard from a separate source that the studio does indeed use different grades of clay, and sets prices accordingly. However, does it make sense that clay quality can drive the price up by over $500 for an otherwise similar pot?

Is the quality of these pots legitimate and respected in China, or is the studio just “online famous” amongst us Westerners?

Just want to share what I learned so far from in-person yixing shopping in China. The clay plays such small part of the cost. Even if the pot is used with rare clay, you probably have no way to tell. The cost typically go to artist, the source such as buying from the artist/studio directly, yixing specialized vender, tea shop etc.

[Bok]

@mafoofan as their antiques are well over priced (a topic where I have a pretty good idea of retail prices in Asia), it is reasonable to assume their modern Yixing are also overpriced.

In terms of brewing A grade clay would make a difference, but I am not aware of a good way to tell if the clay used is, by using pictures only.

In this price category it is best to see the pot for one self... other factors like handling and practicability you can also not check otherwise. With such an investment it better be good to use. Master pot is no guarantee for that, some of them are not user friendly at all.

[Ethan Kurland]

....
I am looking for a high-quality, modern, fully handmade Yixing teapot....

I would advise you to wait a long time before purchasing. I won't list reasons that I'm sure others could easily also offer you. I do say: If there are a few teas that you drink regularly, those teas should be prepared by you in a pot of the type of clay that you plan to buy. Maybe such clay suits none of them. I'd rather spend time & $ searching for pots in person with teas in my bag (& perhaps a way to heat water) than risk $500 - $3000 for an online order).

At a pottery shop & school in Tainan, I brought teas to brew in pots that I was thinking of purchasing. I & the wife of the boss had fun drinking a lot of tea. I bought a pot made by the master's top apprentice for less than $90. It remains my favorite teapot.

[Bok]

@Ethan Kurland that is a very sound strategy!

[mafoofan]

....
I am looking for a high-quality, modern, fully handmade Yixing teapot....

I would advise you to wait a long time before purchasing. I won't list reasons that I'm sure others could easily also offer you. I do say: If there are a few teas that you drink regularly, those teas should be prepared by you in a pot of the type of clay that you plan to buy. Maybe such clay suits none of them. I'd rather spend time & $ searching for pots in person with teas in my bag (& perhaps a way to heat water) than risk $500 - $3000 for an online order).

At a pottery shop & school in Tainan, I brought teas to brew in pots that I was thinking of purchasing. I & the wife of the boss had fun drinking a lot of tea. I bought a pot made by the master's top apprentice for less than $90. It remains my favorite teapot.

That would be a fantastic approach—but it is simply not possible in the U.S. There aren’t enough stores with enough good pots in any one place to try them out like that. Also, while it would be an amazing experience to fly to Asia and do as you suggest, doing so is obviously far more expensive and time-consuming than risking a few hundred (or even a thousand or two) dollars.

So, there is no choice but to buy based on reputation and what you can see/read online. Can anyone tell me more about the studio that Chanting Pines works with? The specific artist is Chen Ju Feng.

[Tillerman]

Hi forum! New here. Thank you in advance for the welcome.
I am looking for a high-quality, modern, fully handmade Yixing teapot.

I strongly suggest that you investigate pots from @mudandleaves https://www.mudandleaves.com/store/c1/mudandleaves. They carry both half handmade and some fully handmade pots ant the pricing is very fair. Additionally, Patrick is very helpful and if you were to contact him I am certain he could provide some guidance. Apart from that, I agree with @Bok and @Ethan Kurland; it is way too early for you to spend $3000 on a pot.

[Youzi]

...
So, there is no choice but to buy based on reputation and what you can see/read online. Can anyone tell me more about the studio that Chanting Pines works with? The specific artist is Chen Ju Feng.

To Quote Myself from the Yixing topic:

The pots sold by GTH are from the same supplier which chanting pines and previously EOT used.

It's a studio Wu Xing Shan Fang (五行山房) lead by Master Zhou Qi Kun 周其坤 (rank 3) and his wife Chen Ju Fang 陳菊芳 (To my knowledge unranked, but not all potters pursue ranking)

What Those Ranks mean, and where to find a certain potter, you can find on my blog: HERE

To my knowledge there's no western vendor, who sells Master (rank 3) teapot, or teapots worth 1000s of dollars. Unless you value antiques, then I'm sure @Bok can recommend you some places to look? (not necessarily as cheap as in Asia)

[pantry]

So, there is no choice but to buy based on reputation and what you can see/read online. Can anyone tell me more about the studio that Chanting Pines works with? The specific artist is Chen Ju Feng.

Hi @mafoofan, I own several pots from that studio, including diamond, silver, and bronze grades. They are for sure overpriced. You can definitely find similar quality pots at 30%-40% cheaper. When EoT was selling the same pots, they were much cheaper. Please keep in mind that EoT was also charging a western facing premium, but that was also several years ago. The problem is that you have two middle men here, and I don't believe the first middle man is giving the second middle man reasonable wholesale discount.

That said, it is true that not everyone can afford to travel, see multiple pots in person, and learn from more experienced friends before buying a nice pot. The tea market in China is extremely difficult to navigate even if you speak the local dialect. If you are okay with paying that extra cost, then yes, the teapots are of good quality. The student made bronze-grade pot priced around $100 is more than good enough (I have one that's my favorite--just a tad too big for my solo session). The quality of student vs master isn't that noticeable--but you don't get as many designs to choose from. The diamond grade is unnecessary.

As for their antiques, I appreciate the seller taking nice photos for all of us to view online. But yeah, I would follow @bok and others' sane advices.

[pantry]

On the topic, I'd like to hear experiences with their yixing pots. They claim that their zini teapots are non muting, which is hard to believe considering the consensus of how zini acts.

My experience is that their diamond grade is non-muting. The bronze mutes. Silver, not as much, but I need more experimentations

[Chadrinkincat]

So, there is no choice but to buy based on reputation and what you can see/read online. Can anyone tell me more about the studio that Chanting Pines works with? The specific artist is Chen Ju Feng.

Hi mafoofan, I own several pots from that studio, including diamond, silver, and bronze grades. They are for sure overpriced. You can definitely find similar quality pots at 30%-40% cheaper. When EoT was selling the same pots, they were much cheaper. Please keep in mind that EoT was also charging a western facing premium, but that was also several years ago. The problem is that you have two middle men here, and I don't believe the first middle man is giving the second middle man reasonable wholesale discount.

That said, it is true that not everyone can afford to travel, see multiple pots in person, and learn from more experienced friends before buying a nice pot. The tea market in China is extremely difficult to navigate even if you speak the local dialect. If you are okay with paying that extra cost, then yes, the teapots are of good quality. The student made bronze-grade pot priced around $100 is more than good enough (I have one that's my favorite--just a tad too big for my solo session). The quality of student vs master isn't that noticeable--but you don't get as many designs to choose from. The diamond grade is unnecessary.

As for their antiques, I appreciate the seller taking nice photos for all of us to view online. But yeah, I would follow @bok and others' sane advices.

I don’t think CP is actually selling their pots for significantly more than EOT.

I used the wayback machine to see the 2013 prices from EOT. 2013 exchange rate of $1.6 = £ 1
#1 grade: £440/$704 $781 in 2020 money.
Cheapest CJF £148/$236 or $262 in 2020 money.
Apprentic


Oddly enough CP actually offers a 50ml diamond pot for $380 which EOT also sold in 2013 for £440. This pot is basically $400 cheaper from CP after accounting for exchange rate in 2013 and value in 2020 money.

[Chadrinkincat]

So, there is no choice but to buy based on reputation and what you can see/read online. Can anyone tell me more about the studio that Chanting Pines works with? The specific artist is Chen Ju Feng.

Hi mafoofan, I own several pots from that studio, including diamond, silver, and bronze grades. They are for sure overpriced. You can definitely find similar quality pots at 30%-40% cheaper. When EoT was selling the same pots, they were much cheaper. Please keep in mind that EoT was also charging a western facing premium, but that was also several years ago. The problem is that you have two middle men here, and I don't believe the first middle man is giving the second middle man reasonable wholesale discount.

That said, it is true that not everyone can afford to travel, see multiple pots in person, and learn from more experienced friends before buying a nice pot. The tea market in China is extremely difficult to navigate even if you speak the local dialect. If you are okay with paying that extra cost, then yes, the teapots are of good quality. The student made bronze-grade pot priced around $100 is more than good enough (I have one that's my favorite--just a tad too big for my solo session). The quality of student vs master isn't that noticeable--but you don't get as many designs to choose from. The diamond grade is unnecessary.

As for their antiques, I appreciate the seller taking nice photos for all of us to view online. But yeah, I would follow @bok and others' sane advices.

I don’t think CP is actually selling their pots for significantly more than EOT.

I used the wayback machine to see the 2013 prices from EOT. 2013 exchange rate of $1.6 = £ 1
#1 grade: £440/$704 $781 in 2020 money.
Cheapest CJF £148/$236 or $262 in 2020 money.

Oddly enough CP actually offers a 50ml diamond pot for $380 which EOT also sold in 2013 for £440. This pot is basically $400 cheaper from CP after accounting for exchange rate in 2013 and value in 2020 money.

[Youzi]

@Chadrinkincat

Thanks for the investigative work. It's really great to see these things, instead of just using our memory.

[pantry]

I don’t think CP is actually selling their pots for significantly more than EOT.

I used the wayback machine to see the 2013 prices from EOT. 2013 exchange rate of $1.6 = £ 1
#1 grade: £440/$704 $781 in 2020 money.
Cheapest CJF £148/$236 or $262 in 2020 money.

Oddly enough CP actually offers a 50ml diamond pot for $380 which EOT also sold in 2013 for £440. This pot is basically $400 cheaper from CP after accounting for exchange rate in 2013 and value in 2020 money.

I actually did the same and compared all prices

It is true that if you're looking for the 50ml pots, then CP is cheaper. Otherwise, EoT was cheaper.
EoT sold all #1 pots at the same price regardless of the size. So a >100ml pot would also be GBP 440 x 1.6 = $704, while CP is around 850. EoT student pots were GBP 60 * 1.6 = $96. CP is selling around $110-130.

You're right I didn't take into the account of the different exchange rate back then. GBP is much weaker nowadays.

Like I said, one fewer middle man and also the time difference. I'm sure EoT has raised their margin on their current selection as well. I'm not against CP, otherwise wouldn't have bought some myself

[Tor]

I have EoT’s #1 and CP’s diamond teapots. From the look and the effects on tea, I believe they’re not the same clay.

Chanting Pines
Essence of Tea