Mei leaf

Randy the Intern
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:21 am

aet wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:32 am
Randy the Intern wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:28 pm
Then almost 2 months later I get an auto generated email offering me free shipping because I didn't buy anything.
It makes me think that the same is expected also from other vendors.
I have tons of open baskets lined up dating back few months and I thought that people were just window shopping or forgot to finish the order, but seems to be also a strategy now ;-D
To be honest, from a pure consumer standpoint it really helps seal the deal. I’ve made many mock orders on tea sites and I haven’t pulled the trigger because I get slapped with huge shipping fees. Free shipping is enough to make me say “sure, I’ll try that”. I think the best person I’ve seen for shipping is Tillerman. That dude has to lose money on those small sample orders. But it’s incentive to make me want to try it. And if I like it you can bet I’ll be back for a bigger order.
Ethan Kurland
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:03 am

Randy the Intern wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 12:21 am
... it really helps seal the deal. I’ve made many mock orders on tea sites and I haven’t pulled the trigger because I get slapped with huge shipping fees. Free shipping is enough to make me say “sure,
Taxes, shipping fees, .... Sure, consumers want to "get a break" & for transactions to be simple, easy to understand & complete. I do not have a website nor accept payment except by check or paypal. This will keep many people from dealing w/ me. Okay for my life to lose sales of people who like to click a few times & be done, but that's not okay for a true businessman.
Randy the Intern
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:33 am

Me and my tea friends really like trying new vendors. We try to diversify ourselves as much as we can to get a wide perspective. I think if a vendor is truly confident in their product, they should find ways to make that first order easier on the consumer. It takes one good tea to adopt a new customer for life. I don't think there's a one-size fits all answer for this, but some examples that helped push me to place an order have been:

Yunnan Sourcing US - Free shipping on $100+
Farmer-Leaf - Free shipping on $30+ - this one is a favorite of mine. William has fantastic quality and low cost to entry. Takes forever to get here, but I'm willing to wait because I know it's good.
Teavivre - Free shipping on $40? I think.

I actually don't like the way Mei Leaf does it. Reward bad customers who don't order anything, but fuck your loyalists. What is this, the cable company? Anyway, I'm supposed to get his tea today. I'm pretty excited.
Ethan Kurland
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 11:46 am

Randy the Intern wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:33 am
I inserted emojies.

I actually don't like the way Mei Leaf does it. Reward bad customers who don't order anything, but fuck your loyalists. What is this, the cable company? :lol: Anyway, I'm supposed to get his tea today. I'm pretty excited. :roll:
You are funny. Cable companies & self-storage companies treat new customers much better than the ones they already have to your dismay; however, people keep doing business with them & you are doing business with Mei Leaf. Good to see that your displeasure does not keep you from trying new teas. ;) .

Seriously, if one pays < $10 for shipping on a $100 order, is that so terrible?
BMW gave away 5 years of free oil changes as an incentive to buy new BMWs & found it was more effective than a $750 discount though the oil changes would cost customers much < $750.

Cheers
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teatray
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 2:27 pm

I feel there's another perspective to these 'techniques'. Free shipping (not to mention international courier shipping) on small orders indicates that the prices include a pretty big profit margin. In a way, this is disloyal to repeat customers, too. Let's say you order 2-4 small packs, get them with 'free' shipping, and it's maybe OK for both sides (I don't believe for a second a seller would price such orders out of profit, except as part of a rare campaign or something). If you happen to really like what you got, what's the next step? Order 5-8 teas, some in larger packs, but at the same price points?... you get punished for sticking to the seller & ordering larger quantities.

I believe if customers appreciate that int'l shipping is a non-trivial expense for the order, they give the opportunity for more transparency and better pricing by the seller. Seeing 'free shipping' actually discourages me a bit when browsing shops. Not an absolute, of course, I've gotten good tea from both kinds of sellers, but more often from the kind that doesn't offer free shipping.

The differences in price for the two approaches can be large, see e.g. how Zhengshan Tea Industry Co. met with some hostility here (viewtopic.php?f=30&t=2328) because it was selling 50g cans for $32 internationally when they were retailing for the equivalent of a couple of bucks in China (Taobao). They offered free shipping, so that was maybe not entirely fair, but who wouldn't prefer to just get the normal price & shipping costs separately?
GaoShan
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 5:55 pm

I agree with what people are saying. Of course, when a company offers free shipping, that cost is baked into the price of the tea and this rewards smaller orders. When I have to pay US$25 or US$40 for EMS international shipping—and some companies, for whatever reason, refuse to offer cheaper international shipping options—I feel like I have to order large quantities of tea to spread that cost out. Also, the prices these companies charge are sometimes not much lower than those charged by the free shipping guys, though the quality can be better. I'm suspicious that some companies charge customers what they think they will pay even when they don't offer a free shipping threshold, meaning even more profit for the seller and frustration for the customer. Like a lot of things, I think it comes down to how much you trust the company and how badly you want the tea. :)
Andrew S
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:11 pm

I wonder to what extent this kind of free shipping policy for unfinished orders could be driven by things like cookie data... Imagine if a website knew that two people have recently set up new accounts and have window-shopped by placing items into their baskets without making any purchases, but one of them has a history of finishing their purchase if they're given a free shipping offer, whereas the other one will eventually make a purchase regardless of whether or not they're given a free shipping offer.

I'd be annoyed if I were the second person who missed out on the offer, and I might feel a bit violated in either case if I knew that a website had that kind of information about me, but I may well want to purchase that kind of information if I operated a business.

Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but if this kind of analysis does not happen yet, then I imagine that it's only a matter of time until it does, and customers are treated differently based upon their different internet histories.

In any event, I found it quite amusing that Mei Leaf can't even escape from controversy on something as seemingly simple as free shipping.

Andrew
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Bok
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:19 pm

To add another view (although I have a vendor label, I do not earn my living selling tea):
Randy the Intern wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 10:33 am
It takes one good tea to adopt a new customer for life.
The problem from what I hear from the vendor side quite often is the opposite of what you are saying – a lack of loyal, returning customers with orders that make it worth their while. Shopping and sampling across a wide range of shops, ordering little but (sort of) demanding a lot, e.g. free/low shipping, free samples, fast delivery etc. The Amazon set of mind you might call it. From what I observe a lot of jump ships very easily, get bored by a vendor and follow the next one. Or shopping for tiny amounts on a wide range of brands, which in the end helps none of them to run a viable business (it takes a lot more time and effort to pack and ship small samples than larger quantities).

One good tea is sadly by far not enough to make most people returning customers, much less for life. The list of myriads of fads and hyped vendors that are hot and then go cold is endless.

Anyways, in my view free shipping is something for someone who buys enough to make it appropriate, not for window shopping with dubious hopes of future orders... If I see a not checked out cart, I'd more inclined to think that person doesn't know what they want : )
Randy the Intern
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Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:58 pm

So far I've tried the Young Gushu 2022 and the Playground Rendez-Vous.

Young Gushu 2022 - To be fair, I only did this one grandpa style while I was working earlier today. BUT I think it's just as good as the best young raw that I've had (which was from farmer-leaf if you're wondering). Very strong bite, good bright youthful flavor. I'm still not sold on the idea that gushu makes for better tea, but that's just me. The tea I'm comparing it to wasn't gushu and it was much cheaper. The seconds cup started to mellow out into a nice lingering sweetness. Pretty pleasant. Overall: Can I get tea that's just as good for cheaper? Yes. But that's considering I've hunted good puer for awhile now and wasted a ton of money figuring out which vendors I liked and didn't like.

Playground Rendez-Vous - This is super nice. Not like a typical ripe. Doesn't taste like dusty old library books. This one is near identical to one I've had from YS called "Ba Wang". Nice medium thickness, creamy, chocolatey, semi sweet. I can't get 30 different tasting notes out of it like Don can, but I like what I taste. The similar tea from YS is quite a bit cheaper though....

Overall, I'm finding myself comparing these neck to neck with the best teas I've had. So far I think the quality is high, but so are the prices. The quest will continue. Stay tuned because I've got a lot more to sample.

Edit #1:
EMPRESS OOLONG (Da Hong Pao Qi Dan - Big Red Robe) - Just tried this one as well. I'll be honest, I've only had this tea one other time. I got a sample from Verdant and it was dog ass. Tasted like licking a grill. However, this one really surprised me. The first brew had tons of complexity and flavor. 2nd and 3rd brew were just bitter water and I almost thought about throwing it away. Soooo glad I didn't. The later infusions had tongue tingling sweetness that kept coming the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th infusions that was reminiscent to a good white tea. But it wasn't a honey sweetness, it was more like a brown sugar. Really really happy with this tea. I've seen people on here say Yancha that is less than $1 per gram isn't worth drinking. I have to disagree because this is only .50c per gram.
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LeoFox
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:05 am

What I got from randy is that most of don Don's stuff is about ys level.
Randy the Intern
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:39 am

LeoFox wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:05 am
What I got from randy is that most of don Don's stuff is about ys level.
Well to be fair, that's if you can find what's good at YS. YS tea is so hit or miss and the catalog is so big it's hard to navigate. But, yeah it's about on par with the actual good tea at YS. But let's not get carried away because the next tea I tried has been a little underwhelming.

Imperial Green Pre Qing Ming Long Jing - I'm not saying this was a bad tea. It's pretty good. But I've had better Long Jing for sure. This comes in as one of the more vegetal types. Not nutty at all. I had a tea from Teavivre that was similar in profile. It was their "Organic Nonpareil Ming Qian Dragon Well". What I liked about that one from Teavivre was that it tasted heavily of asparagus. So much so that I wanted to pour hollandaise sauce on it and eat it with a steak. However, Dons isn't hitting the same level of enjoyment. Same profile, but weaker and less interesting. I was expecting better on this one to be honest, but it's not even as good as Teavivre. However the one from Teavivre was even more expensive. Roughly 50 cents a gram. Don's is like 39 cents per gram. For the difference in taste, I'd rather buy up to the Teavivre one.
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LeoFox
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:43 am

Randy the Intern wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:39 am
LeoFox wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:05 am
What I got from randy is that most of don Don's stuff is about ys level.
Well to be fair, that's if you can find what's good at YS. YS tea is so hit or miss and the catalog is so big it's hard to navigate. But, yeah it's about on par with the actual good tea at YS. But let's not get carried away because the next tea I tried has been a little underwhelming.

Imperial Green Pre Qing Ming Long Jing - I'm not saying this was a bad tea. It's pretty good. But I've had better Long Jing for sure. This comes in as one of the more vegetal types. Not nutty at all. I had a tea from Teavivre that was similar in profile. It was their "Organic Nonpareil Ming Qian Dragon Well". What I liked about that one from Teavivre was that it tasted heavily of asparagus. So much so that I wanted to pour hollandaise sauce on it and eat it with a steak. However, Dons isn't hitting the same level of enjoyment. Same profile, but weaker and less interesting. I was expecting better on this one to be honest, but it's not even as good as Teavivre. However the one from Teavivre was even more expensive. Roughly 50 cents a gram. Don's is like 39 cents per gram. For the difference in taste, I'd rather buy up to the Teavivre one.
That also says a lot - worse than teavivre- understood
Randy the Intern
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:02 am

LeoFox wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:43 am
Randy the Intern wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:39 am
LeoFox wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:05 am
What I got from randy is that most of don Don's stuff is about ys level.
Well to be fair, that's if you can find what's good at YS. YS tea is so hit or miss and the catalog is so big it's hard to navigate. But, yeah it's about on par with the actual good tea at YS. But let's not get carried away because the next tea I tried has been a little underwhelming.

Imperial Green Pre Qing Ming Long Jing - I'm not saying this was a bad tea. It's pretty good. But I've had better Long Jing for sure. This comes in as one of the more vegetal types. Not nutty at all. I had a tea from Teavivre that was similar in profile. It was their "Organic Nonpareil Ming Qian Dragon Well". What I liked about that one from Teavivre was that it tasted heavily of asparagus. So much so that I wanted to pour hollandaise sauce on it and eat it with a steak. However, Dons isn't hitting the same level of enjoyment. Same profile, but weaker and less interesting. I was expecting better on this one to be honest, but it's not even as good as Teavivre. However the one from Teavivre was even more expensive. Roughly 50 cents a gram. Don's is like 39 cents per gram. For the difference in taste, I'd rather buy up to the Teavivre one.
That also says a lot - worse than teavivre- understood
Not very high praise. I don’t think Teavivre is THAT bad though. They have some decent stuff. Don’t worry, Don will have plenty of chances to redeem himself. I bought every headliner sample pack on the website so I have plenty to try. Roughly 3 different kinds of each type of tea. And then a few extra I was interested in. It’s just going to take me a little time to get through them all and I’m taking my time so I give them each a fair shot.
Randy the Intern
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:24 am

Dram Alchemist Raw Puer - Okay, so this is one that I bought specifically out of pure curiosity. Don said this tea would make me instant "tea drunk". When I watched him drink it he was practically falling in the floor. Not sure that i'm getting the same effect (I think that's all bullshit lol). But it tastes good! It's one of those teas that I drink and I'm not sure how to articulate it. I really don't understand what I'm tasting or what I could compare it to. But I really don't think I'm tasting anything close to Dons notes. He thinks this tastes like strawberries, sherbet and rice....umm no, sorry bud. Can tea not just taste like tea? Anyway, I really like it. If I owned a cake of this, I'd reach for it before many of my others. Not the best puer I've ever had, but it's up there. Should you pay the 43 cents per gram asking price for this? Nope.
Randy the Intern
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Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:54 am

Frozen Summit Oolong Dong Ding Wulong - This is what I expect from a pretty good Dong Ding. Spoiler alert, I'm going to compare this to Teavivre again because I feel like that's a baseline everyone can understand. Quality is similar. It's a good tea. I wouldn't feel cheated paying the 32 cents per gram for this. BUT I'd rather pay the 20 cents per gram from Teavivre yet again. I'm starting to see a theme in these samples. And since I'm starting to be known as the "Free shipping guy" I will throw it out there that Teavivre will ALWAYS give me free shipping which makes it the much more attractive option over Don. Sorry bud, I think you lose this round again :cry:
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