Mei leaf

Andrew S
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:44 pm

Mei Leaf appears to be a perpetually-controversial topic, one from which I'm shielded by avoiding social media and not having tried their tea.

I took a quick look at some of his videos; they're not nearly as offensive as I had assumed just from the way that he is portrayed on his website as some sort of eccentric salesman, and they're probably in-line with what most people want and expect from equivalent online review-style advertisements in other areas, such as wine, whisky, coffee and food.

If I had not read posts such as this, I would have just assumed that they're a typical, local, not especially large, tea business based in London with a well-stocked online shop, roughly comparable to the kinds of bricks and mortar stores that I tried out when I was first getting into tea (and from which I soon moved on, though I'm grateful that they were around to get me started, and I do miss going to a tea shop in person).

If I view them in that light, then it seems that a lot of the criticisms fall away (indeed, they've only got one reference to monkeys-picked tea that I could find, and their weight-loss claims even come with a kind of small common-sense disclaimer...).

It does feel a bit like they are intent on creating a tea-cult, in which customers are encouraged to stay within the one shop instead of exploring other online vendors, but they're entitled to do that (and at least that's probably a much more fun way of exploring the world of tea than trying to figure out where to start and who to trust in the online world before you've gotten your tea-bearings).

At least it sounds as though they have some good teas that have pleased people (and some other teas that have not).

Andrew
.m.
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Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:39 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:09 pm
Oh wow, the mei leaf yancha is worse than those teas from YS? One of those YS teas I ended up throwing into the garbage after two sessions, and I'm a pretty stingy guy!
In my experience YS can be wildly variable in the quality: from teas that shine well above their price range to teas that feel nasty. Last time i bought their yancha was in 2013: it was $33 for 250g of a "Classic Rougui" - pretty decent daily drinker that could withstand a comparison with EoT "Half-handmade" yancha from that time that was 3x as much. But that was a long-time ago... these days the same money would not even cover a 25g sample from ML...
teabug
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Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:23 pm

Andrew S wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:44 pm
I took a quick look at some of his videos; they're not nearly as offensive as I had assumed just from the way that he is portrayed on his website …
I find his videos very entertaining and educational. He clearly understands online marketing and is quite knowlegeable. Apart from the fancy tasting notes, which I find hilarious, I have been learning a lot from his videos.
Andrew S wrote:
Mon Dec 13, 2021 3:44 pm
It does feel a bit like they are intent on creating a tea-cult, in which customers are encouraged to stay within the one shop…
If his teas were of better and more consistent quality, I’d be happy to even pay a bit more and purchase mainly from him rather than wait 6-8 weeks for the parcels from China. I live in Zürich and am no stranger to greatly inflated prices. However, It seems to be rather a hit an miss with his tea offerings. So far I have sampled 5 teas of which I like two and am (very) disappointed with three. That is not a good result for a online shop that has fairly upmarked price tags and likes to present his owner as a tea connoisseur. After all his tasting notes and demeanor in the videos is obviously meant to lead the audience to believe he is some sort of tea master who sells carefully curated rare and fine teas 8-)
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Baisao
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Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:42 pm

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John_B
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Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:47 pm

teabug wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:23 pm
...I live in Zürich and am no stranger to greatly inflated prices...
Have you tried teas from Tea Mania, based in Switzerland, and if so what was your impression of them? As I see it that's one of the best sources for sheng on the internet, and it's only a matter of time until the owner gains more following and bumps pricing level considerably for the exact same teas. It's probably better not to even talk about that, as it might've been better to keep Farmerleaf under wraps, since exactly that happened with them.
teabug
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Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:24 pm

John_B wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:47 pm
teabug wrote:
Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:23 pm
...I live in Zürich and am no stranger to greatly inflated prices...
Have you tried teas from Tea Mania, based in Switzerland, and if so what was your impression of them? As I see it that's one of the best sources for sheng on the internet, and it's only a matter of time until the owner gains more following and bumps pricing level considerably for the exact same teas. It's probably better not to even talk about that, as it might've been better to keep Farmerleaf under wraps, since exactly that happened with them.
No, I haven’t yet tried them but did have a peek a few month ago. At first, I almost always browse the tea hardware section of a new online store. With simple and widely available items such as strainers ( https://www.teamania.ch/teesieb/) I can somewhat judge the overall pricing policy. The teas can be good or not, they can be gushu or not (with most vendors, they probably aren’t). But when a shop charges about $5 for a simple stainless steel strainer, I usually jog on. Even Don doesn’t dare charging more than about $2 for such an intem.

But if you recommend them, I will actually give them the benefit of the doubt an make my next tea purchase with them. Any tea that you can particularly recommend?
John_B
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Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:20 pm

What you say makes perfect sense, that comparing the items that are familiar for pricing and style is a reliable approach. In this case I think the owner's inconsistency in setting pricing or mark-up might be helpful, not dialed in related to pricing sheng cakes at a market rate, a bit low instead of high. They might not have a good source related to teaware and have some better than average sources for some of their teas.

Their Yiwu sheng pu'er versions are more or less their "flagship" products. I think the original 2017 Yiwu Lucky Bee might have been slightly better than later versions, and since they are selling a related 2017 product I've not tried. I have tried Mansa and Jing Mai versions that were quite good, but there are levels to that, and individual preference factors in. Aspect descriptions don't really fill in what I mean by that; there's a type of intensity, balance, refinement, and aging potential that isn't easy to describe. Surely there's a level beyond their teas but I've tried others presented as closer to $1/gram that weren't as good. Partly tied to the origin location of a lot of their teas the styles are suitable for drinking within 2 to 3 years of being made, or maybe 4 or 5, versus being styles that need or would benefit most from a lot of aging (in my opinion, but others wouldn't be wrong to see that differently).

The gushu labeling doesn't mean that much to me; I take it with a grain of salt. Older plants would have a different character, and I think I might be able to notice some markers that tie back to that, but there are lots of inputs to how good tea versions are, or patterns in character. If anything gushu designation can serve as a red flag, because if a vendor--no need to name names--identifies all their teas as gushu it makes you wonder, and if pricing is below standard then that seems unlikely. Then if a vendor "catches on" and prices medium quality teas a lot higher that's an even worse case.

I think their Japanese teas are above average too, but I'm not a great judge of that for drinking less of those, and buying green teas outside of spring or summer isn't the page everyone is on. They started out as a Thai tea vendor but Thai teas aren't on the same level as Taiwanese original versions, in general, and it's possible to buy better versions of most from Vietnam than Thailand at good pricing. Tea Side turns up some exceptions (a Thailand based vendor), many in Yunnan tea styles, but I'd recommend Hatvala out of Vietnam over them related to value.
teabug
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Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:11 am

John_B wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:20 pm
… if a vendor--no need to name names--identifies all their teas as gushu it makes you wonder,
kind of what that vendor does. Nearly all their Puerhs seem to be Gushu. All thanks to the tea master called Panda… :lol:
John_B wrote:
Wed Dec 15, 2021 8:20 pm
I think their Japanese teas are above average
I might order one of their matchas to check them out. Maybe even one of their numerous “Gushus” if I feel adventurous that day :geek:
John_B
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Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:46 am

It was a reference to both of them, to Tea Mania and Mei Leaf. But again, I just don't put much stock in tea plant age claims in general. Or the wild origin and somewhat more natural growth designations.

Of course all of it could really mean something that could affect the outcome of the tea character, but in the end the teas are what they are, and what's evident in brewed liquid aspects matters most. I don't buy very much tea, in general, so it's not something I need to sort out to get routine sourcing settled. For people who are placing significant tea orders every other month and varying sources they would probably need to make a different kind of peace with these issues.

That "old local tea master" theme you mentioned is the main other red flag; it's funny that it worked out that way. It reminds me of "meeting" someone online many years back, at the time skeptical of people presenting themselves as tea farmers, because that's another standard concern, that there aren't very many Chinese tea farmers who are somewhat fluent in English talking to people through Facebook. If they also happen to sell teas from different parts of China that pretty much settles it, and they're re-selling local market or Taobao products instead. This local tea producer did claim to sell Wuyi Yancha and Dan Cong; it didn't look good. Later it turned out that she is from an old Wuyishan producer family, and her husband is from one in Chaozhou, and she is completely legit, and very well known and respected in the tea community. Now she is more of a friend I've just not met yet than a tea contact. She thought it was funny that someone would doubt she was a tea farmer / producer, as if that's the kind of thing people wouldn't make up.
kekstee
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Sat Jan 08, 2022 5:52 am

I guess the size of this topic reflects their online presence?

Gotta say they immensely facilitated getting into tea proper coming from just japanese greens, and they solved all import headaches for me as EU customer, until last year anyway.
I certainly needed that comprehensive selection and description of origin and processing to try different things and gain a better understanding. ML provides a pretty consistent frame of reference within their selection here.
And shop hopping isn't easy, I've certainly had that issue with some places, where ordering samples according to their online descriptions (if present) was quite a mixed bag.
Another this he does really well is package sizes, a lot of shops just do 50 or 100g bags, which is extremely annoying when you try to taste some expensive teas.

I always got the vibe that Don is actually learning a lot himself, geeking out over it instead of presenting himself as final authority. Adding a bit of a wink to all the outrageous claims made.

Calling Don expensive compared to prices in Asia isn't exactly helpful either.
Ordering directly from China isn't an option for me anyway since no amount of tea can be imported without proper lab tests. Got very lucky with a YS order and a nice customs officer once and haven't tried since. With the EU customs changes the whole process seems much more streamlined now. It's just processed somewhere and you get a more or less reasonable invoice plus massive fee from the parcel company.
Randy the Intern
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Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am

I plan to put this debate to rest. I’m in a similar position as the original poster. I’ve came up watching Don and always wanted to order from him, but I haven’t due to the shipping to the USA. However, Don just offered me a free shipping order (what a nice guy) so I’m going to take advantage of that and order a super wide variety of tea from him. I’ll update this post with my notes when I have an opinion of the tea itself. Just ordered today.
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pedant
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Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:00 pm

Randy the Intern wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
I plan to put this debate to rest. I’m in a similar position as the original poster. I’ve came up watching Don and always wanted to order from him, but I haven’t due to the shipping to the USA. However, Don just offered me a free shipping order (what a nice guy) so I’m going to take advantage of that and order a super wide variety of tea from him. I’ll update this post with my notes when I have an opinion of the tea itself. Just ordered today.
nice, randy. let us know what you like or don't like.
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LeoFox
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Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm

Randy the Intern wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
I plan to put this debate to rest. I’m in a similar position as the original poster. I’ve came up watching Don and always wanted to order from him, but I haven’t due to the shipping to the USA. However, Don just offered me a free shipping order (what a nice guy) so I’m going to take advantage of that and order a super wide variety of tea from him. I’ll update this post with my notes when I have an opinion of the tea itself. Just ordered today.
How did you get a free shipping order?
Randy the Intern
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Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:28 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:03 pm
Randy the Intern wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
I plan to put this debate to rest. I’m in a similar position as the original poster. I’ve came up watching Don and always wanted to order from him, but I haven’t due to the shipping to the USA. However, Don just offered me a free shipping order (what a nice guy) so I’m going to take advantage of that and order a super wide variety of tea from him. I’ll update this post with my notes when I have an opinion of the tea itself. Just ordered today.
How did you get a free shipping order?
Basically I just made an account, made a mock order and just never purchased anything. I was just a window shopping lurker. Then almost 2 months later I get an auto generated email offering me free shipping because I didn't buy anything. My advice, make your account now and sit on it.
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aet
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Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:32 am

Randy the Intern wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:28 pm
Then almost 2 months later I get an auto generated email offering me free shipping because I didn't buy anything.
It makes me think that the same is expected also from other vendors.
I have tons of open baskets lined up dating back few months and I thought that people were just window shopping or forgot to finish the order, but seems to be also a strategy now ;-D
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