Green Tea Vendor Topic

[GaoShan]

Does anyone know if the de minimis exemption for orders under $800 still applies to American products imported into Canada? This is very confusing.

I am not sure there ever was such an exemption as a formal rule, but some years ago small parcels shipped to Canada through USPS were typically not assessed. Nowadays, everything is hit with taxes, and Canada Post adds a fee for good measure on top of the taxes, because the government has to be compensated for the expense of collecting taxes for themselves. For some reason, they have not yet thought of charging fees for charging fees for collecting taxes.

I've had decent luck getting tea from the States. A long-ago Tillerman order was taxed, but several orders from Ethan and one from Seven Cups went through customs just fine. I think all of these packages were sent through USPS; orders sent via couriers like DHL and FedEx are more likely to incur charges. This could be due to the de minimis exemption, or it could be because tea isn't subject to taxes in Canada. However, I saw that tea was on the list of American goods being threatened with reciprocal tariffs, so I'm not sure what the situation will be going forward.

I agree, that $10 brokerage fee from Canada Post annoys the heck out of me. Surely the taxes from customs can pay for collecting the taxes from customs...

I know Camellia Sinensis carries Anji. I've never ordered Chinese green tea from them because they send it on the slow boat and it arrives sometime in May or June, after I've made all my green tea purchases for the year. Why even bother at that point?

[GaoShan]

Thanks for the BLC recommendations. Is your BLC Mingqian? I know TXS and Hojo also have BLC, though I'm not sure how early it's picked. None of these vendors carry Anji.
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Yea, so I actually seperate the pickings by the day. So you can choose exactly what day you want and even compare them
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Nice! I checked out your presales and they look interesting. The First Pluck BLC from Seven Cups was very fruity and floral. Has that been your experience with your earliest BLC?

[faj]

Does anyone know if the de minimis exemption for orders under $800 still applies to American products imported into Canada? This is very confusing.

I realize that in my haste to criticize our good government's fees, I forgot this is a tea forum, and tea is tax free as it is considered part of basic groceries with are not hit with sales sales inside Canada (yes, even that 10$+/g stuff). So likely if an order contains only tea, there is going to be no sales tax. Not sure about the fee. Teapots are taxable though.

There usually is no duty either, but with everything happening now, I suppose this may change with little to no warning.

[GaoShan]

Does anyone know if the de minimis exemption for orders under $800 still applies to American products imported into Canada? This is very confusing.

I realize that in my haste to criticize our good government's fees, I forgot this is a tea forum, and tea is tax free as it is considered part of basic groceries with are not hit with sales sales inside Canada (yes, even that 10$+/g stuff). So likely if an order contains only tea, there is going to be no sales tax. Not sure about the fee. Teapots are taxable though.

There usually is no duty either, but with everything happening now, I suppose this may change with little to no warning.

I was able to get the customs fees reimbursed on my Tillerman order based on the fact that tea isn't taxable. However, tea is listed among many, many other American goods subject to tariffs according to this link.
https://www.canada.ca/en/department-fin ... -2025.html

I'm not sure if country of origin is a factor and they're only taxing the tiny amount of tea produced in the States. I don't know how the CUSMA rules apply in this situation. I'm by no means an expert in this stuff and don't want to get hit with a huge fine on US$200 worth of tea.

[faj]

However, tea is listed among many, many other American goods subject to tariffs according to this link.

Please note the difference between sales taxes (money you have to pay when purchasing a good or service, whether it is an import or not, and are therefore not protectionist in nature), and tariffs, which are a different beast. When I say tea is free from sales taxes, I am referring to the former, and that is still true. Tea was duty-free too as far as I know, but the information you point to seems to indicate that has changed recently.

[GaoShan]

However, tea is listed among many, many other American goods subject to tariffs according to this link.

Please note the difference between sales taxes (money you have to pay when purchasing a good or service, whether it is an import or not, and are therefore not protectionist in nature), and tariffs, which are a different beast. When I say tea is free from sales taxes, I am referring to the former, and that is still true. Tea was duty-free too as far as I know, but the information you point to seems to indicate that has changed recently.

Okay, that makes sense. So U.S. tea still isn't subject to sales tax but is now subject to duties. This doesn't bode well for my potential Seven Cups order. How can the Chinese green tea I get from Seven Cups be so much better and more varied than the green tea I can get from Chinese vendors? Seven Cups has something like twenty different greens, some of which are micro lots of the same variety, all delivered weeks after they're picked. The Chinese Western-facing vendors have a much smaller selection with some types of tea missing (usually Anji, but also sometimes BLC). It's frustrating to have discovered a great source of green teas only for it to become prohibitively expensive. (And yes, I'm aware this is a minor problem in the scheme of things, but tea is important, darn it!)

[GaoShan]

I recently emailed Hojo about Mingqian tea and he had very strong opinions in his response:

We do not carry Mingqian tea at our store.

The reason is simple—Mingqian tea is of poor quality. While it is commonly believed to be high-quality, this is merely a marketing tactic to sell tea to
uninformed consumers.

Truly high-quality tea, such as that from tea gardens with no fertilizer, high elevations, and older tea trees, grows slowly and takes time to develop.
As a result, the first spring harvest typically occurs in April. Such teas are traded in China’s premium tea market and rarely make their way overseas.

Tea harvested before April and labeled as Mingqian is typically grown with excessive fertilizer, at low elevations, and from young tea trees. This does
not meet our quality standards. The Be Luo Chun that tasted "vegetable-like" is a typical example of tea grown with excessive fertilizer.

He said that Anji Bai Cha is over fertilized and lower quality, so he doesn't carry it. Ouch!

What do you all think of this?

[Sunyata]

I recently emailed Hojo about Mingqian tea and he had very strong opinions in his response:

We do not carry Mingqian tea at our store.

The reason is simple—Mingqian tea is of poor quality. While it is commonly believed to be high-quality, this is merely a marketing tactic to sell tea to
uninformed consumers.

Truly high-quality tea, such as that from tea gardens with no fertilizer, high elevations, and older tea trees, grows slowly and takes time to develop.
As a result, the first spring harvest typically occurs in April. Such teas are traded in China’s premium tea market and rarely make their way overseas.

Tea harvested before April and labeled as Mingqian is typically grown with excessive fertilizer, at low elevations, and from young tea trees. This does
not meet our quality standards. The Be Luo Chun that tasted "vegetable-like" is a typical example of tea grown with excessive fertilizer.

He said that Anji Bai Cha is over fertilized and lower quality, so he doesn't carry it. Ouch!

What do you all think of this?

I can't speak about the market for and production of Anji Bai Cha, but I do know that the native seed grown cultivars take longer to mature hence they are picked later by 1-2 weeks (we are only talking about difference of a few days but the difference is huge). The risk of picking later is that the rainy season will disrupt the drying process, and negatively impact the yield that can be sold. One shouldn't fret too much or over-index on "mingqian"/or early harvest teas, but pay closer attention to producer and processing method. There is a MUCH bigger difference in the same batch of tea being sun-dried vs oven-dried (UV light induces favorable chemical changes that oven-dried does not, though oven-drying is faster, and producers dont need to worry about the weather), or how long they are left to oxidize before the "kill-green". The demand for fragrant teas has resulted in over-oxidized teas to "cover over" the lesser quality material. I think its too simplistic to generalize "higher elevation" as better teas (yancha is an example where lower elevation is often better than higher due to how water flows and mineral accumulation downstream), the terroir and soil type (red or yellow soil, etc.) is more important than just elevation. Yes, using fertilizer will result in more watery tasting teas because it prioritizes fast growth of new leaf, as opposed to allowing the pre-existing/older leaf to develop.

The main point that Akira hojo is driving at is that even for something as relatively simple as green tea, one shouldn't associate "mingqian" with higher quality when theres a whole lot of other intangible considerations at play, from terroir to processing. This doesnt mean we avoid labels altogether... the only way to learn and understand tea is to keep drinking and try more tea.

[GaoShan]

I can't speak about the market for and production of Anji Bai Cha, but I do know that the native seed grown cultivars take longer to mature hence they are picked later by 1-2 weeks (we are only talking about difference of a few days but the difference is huge). The risk of picking later is that the rainy season will disrupt the drying process, and negatively impact the yield that can be sold. One shouldn't fret too much or over-index on "mingqian"/or early harvest teas, but pay closer attention to producer and processing method. There is a MUCH bigger difference in the same batch of tea being sun-dried vs oven-dried (UV light induces favorable chemical changes that oven-dried does not, though oven-drying is faster, and producers dont need to worry about the weather), or how long they are left to oxidize before the "kill-green". The demand for fragrant teas has resulted in over-oxidized teas to "cover over" the lesser quality material. I think its too simplistic to generalize "higher elevation" as better teas (yancha is an example where lower elevation is often better than higher due to how water flows and mineral accumulation downstream), the terroir and soil type (red or yellow soil, etc.) is more important than just elevation. Yes, using fertilizer will result in more watery tasting teas because it prioritizes fast growth of new leaf, as opposed to allowing the pre-existing/older leaf to develop.

The main point that Akira hojo is driving at is that even for something as relatively simple as green tea, one shouldn't associate "mingqian" with higher quality when theres a whole lot of other intangible considerations at play, from terroir to processing. This doesnt mean we avoid labels altogether... the only way to learn and understand tea is to keep drinking and try more tea.

In my limited experience, heirloom cultivars are indeed better for green tea. The BLC from Seven Cups I enjoyed so much was from heirloom bushes, which suggests that they can indeed be harvested and produce good tea before Qingming. I agree that this date might not be a great cutoff, though info about the other factors you and Akira Hojo mention isn't readily available from most vendors. I'll try the BLC from Hojo to see what I think. It's too bad I need to research new green tea vendors after just discovering a good one last year.

[Sweetestdew]

I think the big problem with ming qian is that its used on teas that it shouldnt be. the qing ming cut off date is really for BLC and long jing, but other people have tried to applied this teas. For example I see talk of Pre Qing Ming Huang Shan Mao Feng, but in the core region the first picks of heirloom cultivar are on Qing Ming. Only lower areas can have pre qing ming teas and even then its not really a cut off. I have no expirence with Long Jing but I think for BLC there is something there.

As for Hojo saying pre qing mings are bad. I dont know too much about this but I can see where his point might be that there is too much of a focus on pre qing mings. Also earlier picked teas risk having an underdeveloped flavor. While later picked tea will have a more developed flavor (though risk bitterness). so I can see where one might prefer later picks.

While not a perfect rule, it is something easy to digest for beginners and can give an idea of the importance of pick time.

[GaoShan]

I think the big problem with ming qian is that its used on teas that it shouldnt be. the qing ming cut off date is really for BLC and long jing, but other people have tried to applied this teas. For example I see talk of Pre Qing Ming Huang Shan Mao Feng, but in the core region the first picks of heirloom cultivar are on Qing Ming. Only lower areas can have pre qing ming teas and even then its not really a cut off. I have no expirence with Long Jing but I think for BLC there is something there.

As for Hojo saying pre qing mings are bad. I dont know too much about this but I can see where his point might be that there is too much of a focus on pre qing mings. Also earlier picked teas risk having an underdeveloped flavor. While later picked tea will have a more developed flavor (though risk bitterness). so I can see where one might prefer later picks.

While not a perfect rule, it is something easy to digest for beginners and can give an idea of the importance of pick time.

That makes sense. I'd assume Yunnan green teas would be ready much earlier than teas from Anhui. I also wonder when the Qingming Festival was set as the cutoff for high-quality tea. Maybe weather conditions have changed since then, though I'd expect climate change would mean the heirloom bushes could be harvested earlier rather than later.