Characteristics of good gaoshan?

Semi-oxidized tea
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d.manuk
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Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:12 am

Lol, ecstatic dance is wonderful and so is high quality gaoshan.

I've never bought from Floating Leaves because the prices were too low, but have been considering placing a small order this Spring to cement my opinion.
swordofmytriumph
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Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:47 am

Shine Magical wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:12 am
Lol, ecstatic dance is wonderful and so is high quality gaoshan.

I've never bought from Floating Leaves because the prices were too low, but have been considering placing a small order this Spring to cement my opinion.
Their Da Yu Ling and Hehuan Shan are both excellent. If you’re gonna get something, get those.

What are your fave vendors, shine magical?
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d.manuk
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Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:56 am

swordofmytriumph wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:47 am
Shine Magical wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:12 am
Lol, ecstatic dance is wonderful and so is high quality gaoshan.

I've never bought from Floating Leaves because the prices were too low, but have been considering placing a small order this Spring to cement my opinion.
Their Da Yu Ling and Hehuan Shan are both excellent. If you’re gonna get something, get those.

What are your fave vendors, shine magical?
The best gaoshan I've had is from Tea Masters Blog (Stephane Erler's small shop) & from @Ethan Kurland when he sent me some of his DYL (private stash, I think?).
I don't like a lot of what Stephane sells (well, this is true for any vendor really, I'm super picky). He also has quite a few lower price point teas but some of his higher end teas really hit the spot for me. Very fresh & clean.

I'm actually going to Taiwan in a week so I hope I can find some nice tea there.
swordofmytriumph
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Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:21 pm

Have fun in Taiwan!
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Rickpatbrown
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Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:35 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:52 am


Rickpatbrown Top quality Taiwanese gaoshan is expensive; no two ways about that. My gaoshan teas all sell within the price rage you mention and then some. Yet I work on a 55% (or less) margin on everything I sell and I offer free shipping on all North American orders. I do this because I love to make fine tea available and because I am in a position to be able to (I'm old.) And I challenge anyone (except Bok and some other vendors) to buy directly from a farm or merchant in Taiwan and obtain as high quality for a lower price. I have, in the past, railed against high middleman margins in the tea business (https://tillermantea.net/2018/01/) but the truth is, many small vendors barely get by.
I didn't mean to imply unfair prices, just that they are high. We live far away from the source and there are geographic, linguistic, and cultural barriers between. All this adds up to higher prices and makes it less approachable for people who dont know the value in quality high mountain oolong.

Edit: I read your blog post. This is an interesting point and sounds like a major problem. This would be a good topic for another thread. I'd love to see higg prices going directly to better, sustainable farming practices that encourage future generations of producers in a delicate ecosystem.
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Baisao
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 am

@Tillerman, after some DM’s offering advice on what to try from Floating Leaves it seems I may not have selected the correct teas to try.

I have been disappointed quite a bit by domestic attitudes towards teas and by the quality/integrity of teas offered by some vendors. This is why you can find people buying sencha that’s decades old, dancongs that are artificially scented, faked aged oolongs, Taiwa-nam teas, “Jin Xuan” teas mixed with creamer, etc. At best they are affordable, at worst they are dangerous.

To put it another way, there are a lot of gross teas on the market and they are there because many tea enthusiasts are too cheap or inexperienced to demand better. It’s not (just) the vendor’s fault if they cannot sell high quality tea profitably because the market won’t pay for something they don’t appreciate.
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Tillerman
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:41 am

Baisao wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:25 am
Tillerman, after some DM’s offering advice on what to try from Floating Leaves it seems I may not have selected the correct teas to try.

I have been disappointed quite a bit by domestic attitudes towards teas and by the quality/integrity of teas offered by some vendors. This is why you can find people buying sencha that’s decades old, dancongs that are artificially scented, faked aged oolongs, Taiwa-nam teas, “Jin Xuan” teas mixed with creamer, etc. At best they are affordable, at worst they are dangerous.

To put it another way, there are a lot of gross teas on the market and they are there because many tea enthusiasts are too cheap or inexperienced to demand better. It’s not (just) the vendor’s fault if they cannot sell high quality tea profitably because the market won’t pay for something they don’t appreciate.
Agreed - I would add though, that it is the responsibility of vendors of good tea (or perhaps I should say "good vendors of tea") to educate as well as simply sell. A lot do; too many don't.
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Rickpatbrown
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Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:38 am

Tillerman wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:41 am

Agreed - I would add though, that it is the responsibility of vendors of good tea (or perhaps I should say "good vendors of tea") to educate as well as simply sell. A lot do; too many don't.
I think that Taiwan and China have a culture of "student/teacher" that allows for the transfer of knowledge that is missing in the west. When it comes to tea, it's really hard for this to be done in any other way than two people sitting over a pot of tea. I started this thread to try to get information on this exact thing, but the only real way to learn what good quality tea is, is to have someone say "taste this ... this is good. Taste this ... this is bad". All I know is that a "good" tea is better than other teas I've had.

I wish there were more masters and workshops in the US so that people who are interested and willing had a more direct avenue to learn.

On the other hand, there are already supply issue (think Vietnamese teas being passed off as Taiwanese). More people would drive demand. .. but a more knowledgeable market might not accept fraud or poor quality. Idk. These questions are difficult.
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Victoria
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Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:58 pm

Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:46 pm
I really enjoy the current iteration of her charcoal dong ding (exactly how it's called on the site). Also, a favorite of mine and many in my circle, is her 4 roast dong ding which is not available currently. That tea is actually the first tea that I was "addicted" too, in that I drank it all the time. I also enjoy the dong ding traditional A. She's also had interesting teas in her live session packs, some I wish she sold more of. All this to say, don't count out floating leaves dong ding or roasted teas.
I was reading through this thread and saw this older post again. I’m wondering @Teachronicles have you tried HY Chen and Tillerman’s Laoshi roasted DongDing? Both are very high quality. I’m curious how you find those in comparison to Floating Leaves. So far I’ve found each roasted DD to be a pretty different experience. The roasting method and skill, coupled with the leaf, really reveal themselves in roasted DD.
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Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:06 pm

Victoria wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:46 pm
I really enjoy the current iteration of her charcoal dong ding (exactly how it's called on the site). Also, a favorite of mine and many in my circle, is her 4 roast dong ding which is not available currently. That tea is actually the first tea that I was "addicted" too, in that I drank it all the time. I also enjoy the dong ding traditional A. She's also had interesting teas in her live session packs, some I wish she sold more of. All this to say, don't count out floating leaves dong ding or roasted teas.
I was reading through this thread and saw this older post again. I’m wondering Teachronicles have you tried HY Chen and Tillerman’s Laoshi roasted DongDing? Both are very high quality. I’m curious how you find those in comparison to Floating Leaves. So far I’ve found each roasted DD to be a pretty different experience. The roasting method and skill, coupled with the leaf, really reveal themselves in roasted DD.
Yea I've tried tillermans laoshi, and I agree, all a very different experience. So interesting how the same style of tea, vary so much based on the factors you mentioned. I think floating leaves is my favorite, based on flavor, mouthfeel and body effects.
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Victoria
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Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:11 pm

Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:06 pm
Victoria wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:58 pm
Teachronicles wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:46 pm
I really enjoy the current iteration of her charcoal dong ding (exactly how it's called on the site). Also, a favorite of mine and many in my circle, is her 4 roast dong ding which is not available currently. That tea is actually the first tea that I was "addicted" too, in that I drank it all the time. I also enjoy the dong ding traditional A. She's also had interesting teas in her live session packs, some I wish she sold more of. All this to say, don't count out floating leaves dong ding or roasted teas.
I was reading through this thread and saw this older post again. I’m wondering Teachronicles have you tried HY Chen and Tillerman’s Laoshi roasted DongDing? Both are very high quality. I’m curious how you find those in comparison to Floating Leaves. So far I’ve found each roasted DD to be a pretty different experience. The roasting method and skill, coupled with the leaf, really reveal themselves in roasted DD.
Yea I've tried tillermans laoshi, and I agree, all a very different experience. So interesting how the same style of tea, vary so much based on the factors you mentioned. I think floating leaves is my favorite, based on flavor, mouthfeel and body effects.
Hmm @Teachronicles good to hear from you. I found her Charcoal DongDing (purchased a few months ago) to be a light/medium roast, kind of light in aroma and flavor profile had charcoal notes in back. But maybe you are referring to her 4 roast DongDing?
Teachronicles
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Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:19 am

Yah, I don't come around here as often as I should. I am talking about the charcoal dong ding, I think you are right in that it is lighter roast than the laoshi, and maybe even the medium roast chen. I miss the 4 roast, maybe some day shuiwen will have more.
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d.manuk
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Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:02 am

Metallic tasting notes in gaoshan... Do you think they're good or bad?

Personally, I've decided that I find them to be bad even in minute amounts since they are hard to balance with other flavors in the tea and tend to dominate.
Just something I thought of as I've been dong extensive gaoshan teapot testing over the past week and having drank through 75g of 98k DYL.

Porcelain pot gives no metallic flavors, leaving a light and bright flavor but has a smaller flavor profile that can be hard to catch my palate's attention. Easy to drink goodness.
Clay pot gives me some metallic tasting notes that bring flavor to the tea and a broader flavor profile, but also the brew seems needlessly aggressive when compared to the porcelain. To me it seems to amplify some of the bright flavors in gaoshan that "vibrate", but amplify that to an aggressive degree to the point it seems metallic. The brew seems more alive than the porcelain one though, that's for sure.

I wish I could taste what a silver teapot would do.
Last edited by d.manuk on Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Bok
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Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:11 am

Shine Magical wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:02 am
Metallic tasting notes in gaoshan... Do you think they're good or bad?
:shock:

That does not sound good at all, nothing I ever encountered in Gaoshan!
Only in really bad, low quality lower elevation Taiwan tea and some badly processed roasted teas.
Sounds like pesticides or something else is fishy with it.
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d.manuk
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Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:15 am

I edited my post to try to explain more clearly :)

Overall, I think I've come to the conclusion that I will stick with the thin porcelain pot for now for brewing gaoshan and will move on to experimenting with adding activated charcoal to Poland Spring and doing another round of testing of what the best water to use is. The liveliness of the brew of the clay pot is certainly something I will miss but I think I can achieve the same effect by focusing on water and fooling with brewing times.
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