Yancha issues

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theredbaron
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am

I have ordered quite a few samples of Yancha from many internet based shops, and i have to say that generally speaking i am quite disappointed.
As previously brutally roasted Yancha have been disappointing, since a few years i am now getting disappointed by too light roast Yancha. This leaves to me a far too intense taste, either very sweet Shui Xien, for example, or extremely fruity Rou Gui. Where previously often brutal roast was hiding bad leaves, now i feel the opposite, less roast gives an intense but obvious taste, somewhat ressembling the Yancha i love to drink, but most of these teas are lacking the more subtle aftertaste that comes up from the throat and stays forever. And rarely i get that upward pointing taste profile that good Yancha needs to have.
I do not know enough to say if this is a new fashion of how to roast Yancha, or what this is about, but none of these Yancha come close to the great Yancha i was drinking with Paul Lim (Lim Ping Xiang) when i lived in SEA and had the chance to see him regularly in KL.
Can anybody relate to this, or is it just me?
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Bok
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:48 am

Closer to the source you get better teas... no? Good connections for excellent teas take decades to form and that is just easier done by someone living in the region. Western facing sellers that travel there a few times a year will have a harder time getting that done.

Another issue might be the in other recent threads mentioned difference in climate and humidity.
theredbaron
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:12 am

Bok wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:48 am
Closer to the source you get better teas... no? Good connections for excellent teas take decades to form and that is just easier done by someone living in the region. Western facing sellers that travel there a few times a year will have a harder time getting that done.

Another issue might be the in other recent threads mentioned difference in climate and humidity.

I have still some stock of good and excellent Yancha, and not to get confused, i have drank them side by side, and the difference is obvious and noticeable. I find that my good Yancha taste as good as ever.
As to climate, i find that roasted tea are less susceptible to different climate than greener teas. Many years ago i found the difference in climate especially obvious with green tea, especially Lung Ching. The Lung Ching a drank at the source near Hangzhou was incomparably better than the same Lung Ching i brought with me to Bangkok.
chofmann
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:52 pm

Where were the good teas previously from and where are the new overroasted / underroasted teas from?

It could simply be the style of each farm / roaster.
theredbaron
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:47 pm

chofmann wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:52 pm
Where were the good teas previously from and where are the new overroasted / underroasted teas from?

It could simply be the style of each farm / roaster.
Teas do undergo fashions. For example previously Ti Kuan Yin was not the tightly rolled very green tea it is now, it was lose leaves and much darker.
Brutaly roasted Yancha was normal due to the long journeys by ship to SEA and the rest of the world, and people got used to the taste. Still, in Thailand you will mostly find very heavily roasted Yancha.
In China, and in Malaysia around 20 to 30 years ago a not so brutally roasted Yancha was re-introduced, and constantly improved upon. People did a lot of research into how Yancha was processed in the past.
But what i see now is the pendulum going into the opposite way. I have seen this very light roasted (often now described as mid-roast) in many internet based tea suppliers, and i do not particularly like it. Often the tea comes out for me to sickly sweet or fruity, and loses a lot of the subtleties of what i would describe as a perfect roast.
In some ways i find it even worse than a strong roast, as the strong roast at least loses it's harshness after some years, while the very light roasted teas lose much of their taste and will not age.
.m.
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:08 pm

Good point. It is definitely a trend, like you say with TKY, and oolong in general, or even with young puerh, to make the teas more "accesible", or aromatic. I've been noticing some very green looking yancha on the market as well, but i dont know the old teas to compare to be really sure. Roasting is also a lot of work, and a dying art too. Somebody mentioned how in Taiwan, some decades ago there were famous master roasters, whose tea was sought for by people who knew. But i'm sure there are some people carrying the tradition.
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Kale
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:26 pm

I don’t know if it’s really a trend. I also had a lot of disappointments with yancha till I found a reliable source who knows where to find the yancha I like—the right roasting and the right flavors

theredbaron wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am
I have ordered quite a few samples of Yancha from many internet based shops, and i have to say that generally speaking i am quite disappointed.
As previously brutally roasted Yancha have been disappointing, since a few years i am now getting disappointed by too light roast Yancha. This leaves to me a far too intense taste, either very sweet Shui Xien, for example, or extremely fruity Rou Gui. Where previously often brutal roast was hiding bad leaves, now i feel the opposite, less roast gives an intense but obvious taste, somewhat ressembling the Yancha i love to drink, but most of these teas are lacking the more subtle aftertaste that comes up from the throat and stays forever. And rarely i get that upward pointing taste profile that good Yancha needs to have.
I do not know enough to say if this is a new fashion of how to roast Yancha, or what this is about, but none of these Yancha come close to the great Yancha i was drinking with Paul Lim (Lim Ping Xiang) when i lived in SEA and had the chance to see him regularly in KL.
Can anybody relate to this, or is it just me?
theredbaron
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:05 pm

.m. wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:08 pm
Good point. It is definitely a trend, like you say with TKY, and oolong in general, or even with young puerh, to make the teas more "accesible", or aromatic. I've been noticing some very green looking yancha on the market as well, but i dont know the old teas to compare to be really sure. Roasting is also a lot of work, and a dying art too. Somebody mentioned how in Taiwan, some decades ago there were famous master roasters, whose tea was sought for by people who knew. But i'm sure there are some people carrying the tradition.

Mind you, i have some Yancha on the way from an old source where i previously got very good Yancha from. It is sort of last resort until i can get back to Asia again. I hope their Yancha is the same as before. And i hope that when i come back to Asia my old source where i got my best Yancha from still has the same quality.

Many of he Yanchas i have tried recently, over the past few years, have no resemblance over the great Yancha i had in the past, either from my sources, or which i got from and drink in Wu Yi Shan itself. Where good Yancha has to have a clarity of a mountain spring, with subtle hints of fruit or sweetness, or flowers, now i see an almost oily and sticky sweetness and fruiteness which is simply overwhelming the taste, but not in a good way.

I am wondering what happened. Is that just the Yancha they offer to a general western market, or is this a trend in tea drinking Asia itself. Which would be a shame.
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OldWaysTea
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:16 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:48 am
Closer to the source you get better teas... no? Good connections for excellent teas take decades to form and that is just easier done by someone living in the region. Western facing sellers that travel there a few times a year will have a harder time getting that done.
Without existing connections in Wuyishan I believe there can be only a few results for a western seller wishing to purchase tea. The seller will either pay too much, get bad tea, or do both.
.m. wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:08 pm
Roasting is also a lot of work, and a dying art too.
Traditional roasting is indeed a lot of work, but I don't think it is yet a dying art in Wuyishan. Plenty of young people are learning to roast over charcoal, and find the effort worthwhile.
theredbaron wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:05 pm
I am wondering what happened. Is that just the Yancha they offer to a general western market, or is this a trend in tea drinking Asia itself. Which would be a shame.
Quite possibly it is what is available on the western market. These days there is huge demand for expensive Yancha in China, which has pushed up prices. I can get zhenyan yancha but I don't usually offer it in my shop for a few reasons; one of which is cost.
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Bok
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:33 pm

I do not know Mr Lim, but I wouldn’t expect to find the same quality online as a knowledgeable tea person living in the region ;)
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ShuShu
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:48 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:33 pm
I do not know Mr Lim, but I wouldn’t expect to find the same quality online as a knowledgeable tea person living in the region ;)
Well the good news are that some knowledgeable persons who have good connections in wuyishan also sell teas online. You just need to know who they are ;-)
And also, I know vendors who actually lived in wuyishan though sold crappy yancha (well not crappy but certainly not something you would expect from them)
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Bok
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:13 pm

@ShuShu of course, there are always exception! Does not change the probability though.
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Victoria
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:09 pm

I do think there is a trend towards greener yancha, but I also know of tea makers carrying on and preserving traditional roasting techniques in Wuyi Mountains. I’ve had excellent traditionally roasted, hand processed, yancha from; 2088tea, Essence of Tea, LazyCat Tea, Wuyi Origin, and sadly no longer Origin Tea.
theredbaron
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:20 am

Victoria wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:09 pm
I do think there is a trend towards greener yancha, but I also know of tea makers carrying on and preserving traditional roasting techniques in Wuyi Mountains. I’ve had excellent traditionally roasted, hand processed, yancha from; 2088tea, Essence of Tea, LazyCat Tea, Wuyi Origin, and sadly no longer Origin Tea.

I have never bought Yancha from Essence of Tea, but they source from the same sources i get my good Yancha from, and so i know that their Yancha is good.
What has insipred me to write this post is actually a recent parcel from one of the other sellers you mentioned (i do not want to name them here, as i do not want to harm their business). While the leaves of their top range were OK, i found that their roasting was not. I was very disappointed.
theredbaron
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:21 am

ShuShu wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:48 pm

And also, I know vendors who actually lived in wuyishan though sold crappy yancha (well not crappy but certainly not something you would expect from them)
Indeed...
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