Green oolongs losing flavor within 2 weeks of opening

Semi-oxidized tea
Ethan Kurland
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:33 am

Bok wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:04 am
But then what about the effect on sleep? You can drink aged tea all night without having trouble to sleep, which can not be said about younger teas. I thought that was correlated to the caffeine? Or does the nature of it change? Not firm on the chemistry at work...
Bok's comments returns us to what an individual experiences versus what one reads science shows. The best example of this for me is that researchers never said that there was proof that chocolate causes acne or worsens acne. In lab tests there was no chemical proof. Yet, I know from teenage years to my senior years that eating chocolate one day will produce pimples the next day (and when I was young, a real mess). A billion other people (probably) know the same thing.

Back to tea, the why's of effects are for speculation (mostly for fun) but the reporting of effects is useful. I recently got 20 grams of ten-year old roasted oolong. I have drunk a lot of cups of it at night a few times without it stopping me from sleeping regularly. Perhaps that tea does not hurt sleep because it has less caffeine; perhaps because it is smoother on the tummy. Whatever the reason, the aged tea is good for late night drinking.
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Tillerman
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:50 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:04 am
But then what about the effect on sleep? You can drink aged tea all night without having trouble to sleep, which can not be said about younger teas. I thought that was correlated to the caffeine? Or does the nature of it change? Not firm on the chemistry at work...
I suspect that there are factors other than caffeine that are at play. Although I have not seen any, I am sure that there are a number of research studies out there.
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Baisao
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Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:40 pm

I think we tend to have an overly simplistic view of the chemicals in tea with nary a mention of the synergistic effects of these chemicals and the inclusion of other chemicals. Conversations tend to circle around caffeine or maybe even L-theanine, but I suspect there are clearly many more psychoactive components to tea, especially wild tea.

My apologies for using a drug analogy, but it’s like we are discussing the effects of psilocybin when eating Psilocybe spp., ignoring all the other chemicals in the mushroom that contribute to its unique qualities. As though psilocybin is the sole chemical involved in the experience. A psilocybin trip is apparently somewhat different from a Psilocybe spp. trip, just as Nodoze feels different from drinking tea.
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:54 pm

pedant wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:38 pm
i agree, gaoshan is best enjoyed within a few weeks of opening it. imo about the most sensitive teas are japanese greens (matcha probably #1 most sensitive).
it's a shame, but because of that, i try hard to only have one pack of gaoshan or sencha open at a time.

however, the effect of degradation (or arguably aging) seems to be different in low-oxygen storage. this means stored with O2 scavenger or nitrogen flushed.

imo unopened gaoshan still tastes great -- if a bit different (fruitier maybe?) -- when stored this way for a couple of years, but as soon as you open it, the freshness clock starts ticking again.
This jives with my personal experience with green oolongs. Once you break that vacuum seal, the clock starts ticking on freshness. I try to buy 25g and smaller sizes so the tea doesn't go stale on me.

It's also another reason why I seek out vendors who use oxygen free packaging. Taiwanese and Japanese tea shops do a good job of that, but Western vendors often repackage tea using ziploc pouches which doesn't bode well for green oolongs.
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d.manuk
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm

I wonder if putting an opened packet in the fridge would slow this...? Probably not.
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:47 pm

Shine Magical wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm
I wonder if putting an opened packet in the fridge would slow this...? Probably not.
Not likely. The air space in the pouch would continue oxidizing the tea. Green oolongs are extremely sensitive to oxidation, more so than other teas. I do refrigerate my green teas and it does seem to help extend freshness.
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d.manuk
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:51 pm

LuckyMe wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:47 pm
Shine Magical wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:33 pm
I wonder if putting an opened packet in the fridge would slow this...? Probably not.
Not likely. The air space in the pouch would continue oxidizing the tea. Green oolongs are extremely sensitive to oxidation, more so than other teas. I do refrigerate my green teas and it does seem to help extend freshness.
You mean you refrigerate them prior to opening (but not after), correct?
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:15 pm

Shine Magical wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:51 pm
You mean you refrigerate them prior to opening (but not after), correct?
Both. Once I open a packet of tea, if it's more than what I can drink in a couple of weeks, I portion out the extra into foil pouches and keep them in the fridge. Airtight, opaque packaging will avoid condensation problems and smells getting into the tea.
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Victoria
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Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:37 pm

LuckyMe wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:15 pm
Shine Magical wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:51 pm
You mean you refrigerate them prior to opening (but not after), correct?
Both. Once I open a packet of tea, if it's more than what I can drink in a couple of weeks, I portion out the extra into foil pouches and keep them in the fridge. Airtight, opaque packaging will avoid condensation problems and smells getting into the tea.
Are you vacuum sealing (to remove oxygen) those open greens before placing them in refrigerator? also, air born humidity within the bag will degrade the tea if refrigerated, so I would recommend oxygen absorber packs.
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Dresden
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:35 am

This has been and continues to be my favorite method of storing open teas that won't be immediately consumed. It is a blend of CO2, Argon, and Nitrogen
ppreserve.jpg
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d.manuk
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:57 pm

I’ve read that argon gas can potentially change the flavor of wine slightly (from my research of people’s reviews on the Coravin wine system). Perhaps it could do the same to tea.
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Tillerman
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:33 pm

Shine Magical wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:57 pm
I’ve read that argon gas can potentially change the flavor of wine slightly (from my research of people’s reviews on the Coravin wine system). Perhaps it could do the same to tea.
Argon is used regularly in wineries themselves to blanket wines. It is expensive, however, so nitrogen is most often seen in winemaking.
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aet
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:44 pm

2 weeks is quite a short time, unless u leave it in the basket by the beach having some sun and wind ;-) It is very strange, was it expensive oolong?
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Baisao
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:39 pm

Shine Magical wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:57 pm
I’ve read that argon gas can potentially change the flavor of wine slightly (from my research of people’s reviews on the Coravin wine system). Perhaps it could do the same to tea.
I’ve been using Private Preserve and a similar but discontinued product for over a decade without incident.

On the matter of argon, it is a noble gas, meaning among other things, that it has very low reactivity. How low? Argon does not react with any other element, even at high heat and under special conditions. Therefore, it cannot react to wine or tea. If it doesn’t react to tea or wine, how might it change the flavors of each?

There must be something else wrong with the Coravin wine system. It cannot be the argon itself. Perhaps the argon was/is stored in vessels that carry over bad flavors, but that wouldn’t be the fault of argon.

Again, no problems with Private Preserve. Wish it was more affordable however.
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d.manuk
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Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:18 pm

Yes, it could also be that a small hole in the cork that is made when extracting from an older wine. It was only a few people that noticed a difference and these are online reviews and I have no experience with it myself.
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