The price of aged yancha

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ShuShu
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:54 am

I know that there are counterexamples, but sometimes the price of aged yancha is lower than (or the same as) fresh, even with the same producer. Why is that? Since aging seems to give a special character to yancha I would expect to see the opposite. Is it just based on how the producer evaluates the tea? or are there certain principles?
At WuyiOrigin, for instance (I use them as an example since many here know them ), while the price of 2017 Tieluohan is $20/25g, the price of 2014 Tieluohan goes down to $12/25g (both from Mi Tou Yan in Zheng Yan). Likewise, Beidou 2011 and 2017 are sold for the same price...
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Bok
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:26 am

ShuShu wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:54 am
I know that there are counterexamples, but sometimes the price of aged yancha is lower than (or the same as) fresh, even with the same producer. Why is that? Since aging seems to give a special character to yancha I would expect to see the opposite. Is it just based on how the producer evaluates the tea? or are there certain principles?
At WuyiOrigin, for instance (I use them as an example since many here know them ), while the price of 2017 Tieluohan is $20/25g, the price of 2014 Tieluohan goes down to $12/25g (both from Mi Tou Yan in Zheng Yan). Likewise, Beidou 2011 and 2017 are sold for the same price...
maybe those yancha are not made to be aged? If the basic quality is not good enough or the roasting too low the tea might only get worse.
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ShuShu
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:45 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:26 am
maybe those yancha are not made to be aged? If the basic quality is not good enough or the roasting too low the tea might only get worse.
Why would someone bother aging a tea that does not age well? :shock: (instead of just trying to sell it - were talking about good quality stuff)
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tealifehk
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:55 am

It could also simply be that prices are going up (they are, constantly) and they aren't charging any kind of premium for age on tea that was cheaper a few years ago than it is today (for the same grade).
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Tillerman
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Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:05 am

ShuShu wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:45 am
Bok wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:26 am
maybe those yancha are not made to be aged? If the basic quality is not good enough or the roasting too low the tea might only get worse.
Why would someone bother aging a tea that does not age well? :shock: (instead of just trying to sell it - were talking about good quality stuff)
You very often see the same thing in wine. Many producers establish their prices based upon their cost of production which leads earlier vintages (or in this case harvests) being available at a price LOWER than that of more recent ones. This happens when production costs are rising. This "inconsistency" tends not to be the case with retailers who are more likely to price on the basis of market demand.

With respect to Wuyi Origin, the LARGE majority of Cindy's sales are to the wholesale trade; they generally don't accept price hikes on what they buy meaning that once a price is established it pretty much stays put. I got some 2010 Tieluohan from Cindy at a very attractive price for a very nice tea - and one that was baked explicitly for ageing.
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octopus
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:55 am

this is very common and perfectly normal. you will simply answer your own questions if you drink and try more tea. most yancha in fact gets a very boring chen flavor after 3-4 years, not so interesting to drink and imo tastes the worst , loses its special characters. only the exceptional teas or the exceptionally well stored ones might still be good but is a risk not worth taking with exceptional teas imo, just enjoy them while you are sure they taste 10/10.

Therefore price is low simply because demand is low simply because flavor is boring and all the same and there are tons of this unsold stuff. this doesn't mean you can't drink it or buy it or enjoy it but a simple price explaination.

Now what you are talking about isnt "aged yancha", this is simply old yancha or chen tea that nobody wants to drink (*most people) no matter which way a shop is trying to spin it to get rid of stocks (amazing rare 2014 yancha... just no) and there are tons of it. it gets reroasted periodically to get rid of the fang qinig flavor, it loses even more fragrance, is not so interesting to drink. some shops won't even try to sell this stuff (if they consider it not interesting to drink) to not devalue themselves and just accept it as a loss if is past its prime.

now for the aged yancha, that is tea that is been aged in good conditions for a long time *such as 10/15 years and it is past this so called "awkward phase" where it lost fragrance but didnt develop aged flavor yet, then it can have really nice flavor if material *some teas will not become great aging no matter how you try* and storage are right (and not so cheap price if the flavor really is nice and the tea really is as aged as they as the salesman is telling you, a very common case). aged yancha is a completely different thing.

keep drinking teas and you will see, is impossible to describe flavors :)
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ShuShu
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Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:41 pm

octopus wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:55 am
Thank you very much for sharing this.
What I take from what you say is that aged yancha (in contrast to old yancha) is usually priced accordingly.
I do have to say, that I have once bought some OK RouGui, nothing fancy, that was not very good to my stomach and I decided to try and let it rest a little bit in a tin can in my closet. I thought that maybe the roasting is too hard. As it happens I forgot about it for about a year. And after I tried it, it was much better....
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octopus
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Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:37 am

ShuShu wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:41 pm
octopus wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 5:55 am
Thank you very much for sharing this.
What I take from what you say is that aged yancha (in contrast to old yancha) is usually priced accordingly.
I do have to say, that I have once bought some OK RouGui, nothing fancy, that was not very good to my stomach and I decided to try and let it rest a little bit in a tin can in my closet. I thought that maybe the roasting is too hard. As it happens I forgot about it for about a year. And after I tried it, it was much better....
yes at least in my experience, also nice aged yancha as opposed to boring or sour or "returned to green" one and really aged one (often claims of age go a bit overboard). what you mention about roast is yet a different thing i think: the resting period after roasting to wait for the charcoal to settle down and flavors and mouth feel to round up. Most roasted teas, even the best ones, will benefit from few months of rest according to the strenght of roast. It is very common however to find simply too strong or incorrectly roasted teas (usually blends destined for export outside of china or something done by a seller instead of a producer) the common strong flavor of charcoal and no flavor of the tea character which sounds like what you had and what makes so many beginner assume they dont like yancha. That kind of processing might even require some years of resting i am not so sure, my personal idea is something on the lines of "if it makes me feel good i drink it, if it hurts my stomach or makes me feel bad i dont" but i cant guarantee any benefit. follow your heart
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tealifehk
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Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:52 am

In my own experience, most freshly roasted teas will show their worth in 6 months to a year. Teas that need a year would be very high roast teas. Six months is about right for my own electric roast experiments!
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Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm

tealifehk wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:52 am
In my own experience, most freshly roasted teas will show their worth in 6 months to a year. Teas that need a year would be very high roast teas. Six months is about right for my own electric roast experiments!
Not so important but also a factor, is the need for some teas to breath for a few days or more after being stored without much air. A tea may taste only or too much of roast before time in a ceramic caddy lets other flavors show themselves. One may not pick out specific flavors distinct from roast; yet, the drink may feel much more dynamic and taste much better.
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tealifehk
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Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:27 am

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm
tealifehk wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:52 am
In my own experience, most freshly roasted teas will show their worth in 6 months to a year. Teas that need a year would be very high roast teas. Six months is about right for my own electric roast experiments!
Not so important but also a factor, is the need for some teas to breath for a few days or more after being stored without much air. A tea may taste only or too much of roast before time in a ceramic caddy lets other flavors show themselves. One may not pick out specific flavors distinct from roast; yet, the drink may feel much more dynamic and taste much better.
Ethan, that is definitely true too!
TeaZero
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Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:53 pm

Personally I like oolong as fresh as possible. I don't see any need for aging. In fact, farmers tend to re-roast oolong after a year, when they loose their aroma. Re-roasting reactivates the aroma. Well, that says a lot.
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steanze
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Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:35 pm

TeaZero wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:53 pm
Personally I like oolong as fresh as possible. I don't see any need for aging. In fact, farmers tend to re-roast oolong after a year, when they loose their aroma. Re-roasting reactivates the aroma. Well, that says a lot.
mmm actually it is quite common to let yancha sit 1 or 2 years to let the roast subside. Usually, new yancha is roasted in the late summer (August), and it is not released until November, because until then the roast flavor is too strong.
Re-roasting of oolongs is a debated practice. Some people do that, others don't. Often, those that do re-roast store their oolongs in relatively humid climates, where aging leads to the development of some sourness. Re-roasting can reduce the sourness. Those who don't re-roast their oolongs, often store them in sealed conditions.
TeaZero
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Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:19 am

Re-roasting is a quite a common practice to create darker oolongs though. At least, that's what I understood during my Wuyishan trip. Also the way oolong ages with sometimes quite unpredictable for the farmer as well. It happens often that they 'tweak' a tea re-roasting very slightly. Some of the stores in Wuyishan also have these small scale roasting machines, which they use to tweak their oolongs.
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