Oriental Beauty & Difficulty of Categorizing

Semi-oxidized tea
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Victoria
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Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:00 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:46 pm
Victoria wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:23 pm
This conversation (and another one) has me thinking about how similar an Oriental Beauty is to a Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong I've been having. Both are medium-high oxidized (+-70%), medium roast, have sweet honey ripe fruit aroma and notes, with amber liquor. And both a bug bitten before being picked, so why is one classified as Red Tea the other as Oriental Beauty?

The Oriental Beauty is top of the line from Te Company in NYC 'Oriental Beauty Grand' and the Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong from Origin Tea.
Mi Xiang Hong Cha, literally means red tea with honey aroma. Hualian County on the east coast is most famous for producing this tea.
Oriental Beauty Grand is from Emei, Hsinchu County, using Qingxin da mao cultivar, bitten by tea jassid.
I'm not sure that I have anything new to add to this discussion but I'll try.

Firstly, black tea is not a "fully" oxidized tea. As Will Battle has pointed out in "The World Tea Encyclopaedia" the oxidation levels of black tea are routinely adjusted in order to achieve particular flavor profiles. In other words, black tea is a partially oxidized tea - highly oxidized to be sure but partially nonetheless. In Taiwan, the difference in oxidation levels between say the black tea Hong Yu and the oolong teal Bai Hao are often de minimis. They are processed differently with rolling occurring before oxidation for the black tea and after oxidation for the oolong tea. Teas are best classified according to processing method, not oxidation level.

As to the Mi Xiang, this is an oolong; a red oolong. Red oolongs, or Hong Shui oolongs, are just ones that are highly oxidized and roasted, These are not the same as Hong Cha which is red tea (or black tea in the west.)
Oh thanks for the correction regarding Mi Xiang, as a Hong Shui oolong (red oolong), not a Hong Cha (black/red tea). So you’re saying that both Oriental Beauty and Mi Xiang are both rolled right after oxidation. I’m going to then assume the different names are then a result of different cultivars and or production regions.
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Tillerman
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Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:37 pm

After oxidation but prior to drying the rolling is "twist" rolling. Ball rolling, if it happens, comes after drying.
The first photo shows this "twist rolling the second two, ball rolling.
IMG_0457.JPG
IMG_8197.jpg
IMG_0524.JPG
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Victoria
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:02 pm

Victoria wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:00 pm
Tillerman wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:46 pm
Victoria wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:23 pm
This conversation (and another one) has me thinking about how similar an Oriental Beauty is to a Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong I've been having. Both are medium-high oxidized (+-70%), medium roast, have sweet honey ripe fruit aroma and notes, with amber liquor. And both a bug bitten before being picked, so why is one classified as Red Tea the other as Oriental Beauty?

The Oriental Beauty is top of the line from Te Company in NYC 'Oriental Beauty Grand' and the Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong from Origin Tea.
Mi Xiang Hong Cha, literally means red tea with honey aroma. Hualian County on the east coast is most famous for producing this tea.
Oriental Beauty Grand is from Emei, Hsinchu County, using Qingxin da mao cultivar, bitten by tea jassid.
I'm not sure that I have anything new to add to this discussion but I'll try.

Firstly, black tea is not a "fully" oxidized tea. As Will Battle has pointed out in "The World Tea Encyclopaedia" the oxidation levels of black tea are routinely adjusted in order to achieve particular flavor profiles. In other words, black tea is a partially oxidized tea - highly oxidized to be sure but partially nonetheless. In Taiwan, the difference in oxidation levels between say the black tea Hong Yu and the oolong teal Bai Hao are often de minimis. They are processed differently with rolling occurring before oxidation for the black tea and after oxidation for the oolong tea. Teas are best classified according to processing method, not oxidation level.

As to the Mi Xiang, this is an oolong; a red oolong. Red oolongs, or Hong Shui oolongs, are just ones that are highly oxidized and roasted, These are not the same as Hong Cha which is red tea (or black tea in the west.)
Oh thanks for the correction regarding Mi Xiang, as a Hong Shui oolong (red oolong), not a Hong Cha (black/red tea). So you’re saying that both Oriental Beauty and Mi Xiang are both rolled right after oxidation. I’m going to then assume the different names are then a result of different cultivars and or production regions.
Correction: Origin bag says ‘Hualien Mixiang Red Tea (not red oolong). I’m just reading again that Hualien County produces mainly Black Tea aka Red Tea. So the Mixiang is black/red tea and the Oriental Beauty closer to a red oolong. So still wondering if the name ‘Oriental Beauty’ is attached to location or cultivar, since Mi Xiang simply means honey fragrance, and is also the name used for bug bitten tea.
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:53 pm

Oriental Beauty is not legally tied to a region or cultivar although most good OB comes from Hsinschu County or Miaoli County and is produced from the qing xin da cultivar. In the Pinglin area qing xin wulong is used to produce OB after the spring harvest of bao zhong and before the winter harvest of this tea.
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:59 pm

Victoria wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:02 pm
..since Mi Xiang simply means honey fragrance, and is also the name used for bug bitten tea.
Mi Xiang does mean honey fragrance but is used for other than bug-bitten teas e.g. Mi xiang dancong (or Milan xiang dancong.) In Taiwan not all "mi xiang" tea is bug bitten although most bug-bitten tea is "mi xiang."
Last edited by Victoria on Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Admin edit: corrected quote marks
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Victoria
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:19 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:59 pm
Victoria wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:02 pm
..since Mi Xiang simply means honey fragrance, and is also the name used for bug bitten tea.
Mi Xiang does mean honey fragrance but is used for other than bug-bitten teas e.g. Mi xiang dancong (or Milan xiang dancong.) In Taiwan not all "mi xiang" tea is bug bitten although most bug-bitten tea is "mi xiang."
So many interesting nuances, thanks for your input. Turns out I still have a little bit of Origin’s Hualien Mixiang Red so will take time to get an image, no more Oriental Beauty Grand though. So excellent.
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Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:53 pm

There is a lot of information in recent posts here; however, the posts as well as other factors continue to return me to my main opinion about finding tea that suits one & makes life better: one must taste many to find a few teas that especially suit him; &, likewise try many sources in the hope that eventually those teas can be provided to him year after year without work & disappointment. It is possible to find a source or so to keep one happy. (It occurs to me that now I have one vendor for almost all of my tea & one for the rest. Thus, & for other reasons, it would be stupid for me to purchase from others, now that I am understood & taken care of....)

Discovering that specific cultivars from specific places provide the best oriental beauty does not guarantee that the latest harvest will be one's ideal O.B., but it is an interesting read. What I wonder is whether people order teas after reading the specifics about a great tea & its vendor while it is still in stock. (Victoria has mentioned a few oolongs that sound very good. I hope if people are buying some, that they will comment. Likewise, if Tillerman is stocking several O.B.s or other oolongs, I hope someone buys a bit of all & gives his reactions.)

Of course, we cannot own every good tea that we read about. I like hearing that at times Darjeeling can seem like oriental beauty. I agree. I am out of O.B. If I crave it, I steep my Himalayan Orange quickly to have it seem more like Taiwanese oolong than Nepalese black. (An extremely light brew allows the HOR to imitate white tea also.)

Anyway, good to see some action on a thread. Cheers
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Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:51 pm

Hi Ethan, Both of the teas I referenced here are no longer sold by the two vendors (Origin is sadly no longer). I buy from different vendors, but probably have three or four regulars I keep going back to, plus gifts from various friends. I do enjoy trying new teas, the LA Club has propped that door open for me.

Your original post being about the 'difficulty of categorizing Oriental Beauty' got me thinking about levels of oxidation versus roasting, and the difficulty of identifying the level of oxidation in a tea that's been roasted. Then I had the Oriental Beauty and MiXiang back-to-back and found them to be so similar that they could almost be the same tea, yet as it turns out one is 'medium oxidation/roasted oolong' the other 'medium oxidation/roasted red tea'. Anyway, thanks for your OP, now I know a little more about each.
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Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:55 pm

Greetings again! There was just a post about how to find good sources of tea that drifted into discussing OB types and Tea Forum as a reference, here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/gongfuc ... 744845858/

I might say a little about why I never post here, although it really requires no explanation. It mostly has to do with limiting discussion to a reasonable and limited set of places. I run my own FB group, and like Tea Drinkers there and the Reddit tea sub-forum for places to answer questions. If I have a question I usually have a related contact to ask directly.

Gongfu Cha--that group I just mentioned--is better for more informed discussion, but as a result it's quieter.

And I don't really see spamming a lot of groups with blog post links as doing them a favor. A lot of people here have heard of my blog, and they can read it or not, and going on and on about the latest interesting thing--interesting to me--might not be useful to most at all. Plus, what do I know.
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Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:59 pm

All this reminds me, I have a research paper sort of related to this subject open in another tab, related to talking to a tea maker in Laos just now. Maybe I will start blog-spamming you guys more; a couple of interesting subjects are coming up.

This paper is about those particular bugs, where else they live than Taiwan, definitely not the kind of thing very many people would be interested in, but then this is a tea forum:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0139202
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Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:52 pm

Thanks for posting, John B. Good to see you have not forgotten us. On a less scientific level:

When I have looked at tea leaves as they are growing, I have not seen damage or leafhoppers. Nor have I heard complaints about the loss of yield. I have heard about the creation of flavor due to the healing of leaves at the sites of bug-bites (for oriental beauty and black tea).

The organic teas that I have enjoyed were grown at the highest farms. I assume the cold at the top of mountains keeps the leafhoppers from devouring too much tea.

I have been led to believe that more than one insect feeds on tea. Good to know, that again people may be just saying anything. I always seem to be led back to the same situation, the need to sample, inspect, etc.
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Sat Aug 25, 2018 2:13 am

Nice to run across you posting here too Ethan. I have checked here infrequently so I've seen posts, I just try to limit where I ramble on.

About the bugs eating the leaves, it's my understanding that this particular bug doesn't bite off parts of the leaves, so that the damage they do would be more confined to causing dark spots on the leaves. I'm not sure that would even be evident after processing.

I've also understood that the plants react to the presence of different bugs differently, and will cause that chemical change in the leaves even if the bugs (leafhoppers) haven't eaten much of that plant's specific leaves. All that is just hearsay, though. Here's what looks to be a decent reference on all that though:

https://specialtyteaalliance.org/world- ... tten-teas/

That name might not ring a bell since World of Tea rebranded as something else, as this. It's that same page they had listed before as World of Tea though.
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