Oriental Beauty & Difficulty of Categorizing

Semi-oxidized tea
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:53 am

I am enjoying another Oriental Beauty bought in Taipei. It is sweet and features floral aroma & fruity flavors one associates with o.b.; yet, is not typical with other flavors and a complex feel of black tea.....So good now made with better water and ideal parameters!

Pondering the problem of what to call this tea; moreover, not having words to describe, humbles me. (I have been serious about tea for several years and even sell some, though not o.b.)

I can remember that several years back I believed I had been cheated by on-line vendors, thinking that they had listed teas as o.b. that were not o.b. to get a high price. Now I realized the challenge of categorizing can be great.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:51 pm

Is this OB roasted and or oxidize before being dried? Oxidation essentially turning it into black tea.
I find having a tasting wheel sometimes helps with identifying flavors and aromas. At our tastings here in LA, we have a member that has the gift of identifying flavors and aromas with words. He's studying linguistics so.... Keeping a tasting notes log also helps refine the art of identifying flavors aromas through practice of writing.

John B wrote about the tasting wheel here http://teaintheancientworld.blogspot.co ... -bias.html
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Thanks, Victoria. I have looked at flavor wheels and probably should do so again.

Both of these oriental beauties have been oxidized quite a bit, moving them towards black, and think both have been roasted slightly. I've heard the Lin Mao Sen shop calling some of their o.b.s black tea when they don't feel like talking too much with customers about types of tea.

I was retailing today at a tiny event and brought a few teas but no equipment for preparing samples. I sold one tiny packet of tea, which shows how poorly I describe tea. (And also how the general public hardly buys loose leaf premium tea.)
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:42 pm

A good salesman knows how to spin a yarn and weave magic through hypnotic storytelling... :)
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:44 pm

I was just about to open a new topic when stumbling upon this and thought my question might fit right in:
I noticed that Oriental beauty seems to have quite a bit in common with Darjeeling teas. In this I would also include the Nepali varieties. Anyone else observe the same? Ethan, you have some more experience with teas from that area, what is your opinion?

Superficially looked at and without knowing the provenance, I think one might easily be mistaken for the other.

On another note, a friend told me they were taught in their tea class (Taiwan) that Oriental Beauty is best left in a more airy clay jar for two weeks after opening a pack, before brewing it. I tried that and it seems that those teas benfit from a little airing out and rest in a jar.
plod
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:35 am
Location: Oslo, Norway

Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:24 am

Bok wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:44 pm
I was just about to open a new topic when stumbling upon this and thought my question might fit right in:
I noticed that Oriental beauty seems to have quite a bit in common with Darjeeling teas. In this I would also include the Nepali varieties. Anyone else observe the same?
I have, some more than others, of course. Last year I went through a bag of Gopaldhara "Red Thunder" (by way of what-cha) that, though a bit more robust and acidic, shared many of the qualities I've found in teas labeled Oriental Beauty. Several 2nd flushes too, to a lesser degree, among others this year's Upper Jungpana.

I have read (and will link to sources later, if I can find them again) that many/most darjeelings do not fit in the regular black/green-categories, and if going by degree of oxidisation would be categorized as oolongs. However, it is only recently that some producers in Darjeeling (notably Gopaldhara, though not in the case of Red Thunder) have adopted processing techniques associated with Chinese/Taiwanese oolongs, and label the results as such.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:53 am

plod wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:24 am
I have read (and will link to sources later, if I can find them again) that many/most darjeelings do not fit in the regular black/green-categories, and if going by degree of oxidisation would be categorized as oolongs.
I have always felt that Darjeeling-like teas should have their own category, they are quite distinct.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:50 am

I seem to have one tea caddy that brings out flavors of tea. I have oriental beauty in that caddy; and, leaves from there make very lively drinking: many fruity flavors similar to darjeeling. Nonetheless, it is definitely oolong, not black tea and not green or white tea. One knows what oolong is.

I think, one knows darjeeling is not other tea. It is too unique to be grouped with differently sourced black or oolong teas.

And of course every harvest etc. is unique.

I think the next time that I give samples when retailing teas at a festival, when asked "What is this?" I will grab a packet of that tea and say, "It is this tea."
User avatar
Tillerman
Vendor
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Napa, CA
Contact:

Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:19 pm

The key in classifying tea is the manufacturing process - not the level of oxidation. If the tea is rolled prior to oxidation it is black tea irrespective of the level of oxidation. Similarly, if it is bruised first it belongs in the oolong category whether it is 10% or 90% oxidized. See Tony Gebely's Tea: A User's Guide or my post https://tillermantea.net/2017/05/black- ... long-back/ .‎ I also did some research on the origin of the name "Oriental Beauty" that you can read here https://tillermantea.net/2017/11/orientalbeauty/.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:59 pm

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:19 pm
The key in classifying tea is the manufacturing process - not the level of oxidation. If the tea is rolled prior to oxidation it is black tea irrespective of the level of oxidation. Similarly, if it is bruised first it belongs in the oolong category whether it is 10% or 90% oxidized. See Tony Gebely's Tea: A User's Guide or my post https://tillermantea.net/2017/05/black- ... long-back/ .‎ I also did some research on the origin of the name "Oriental Beauty" that you can read here https://tillermantea.net/2017/11/orientalbeauty/.
Thank you for this clarification and your guide, I often confuse levels of oxidation with processing methods.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:21 am

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:19 pm
The key in classifying tea is the manufacturing process - not the level of oxidation. If the tea is rolled prior to oxidation it is black tea irrespective of the level of oxidation. Similarly, if it is bruised first it belongs in the oolong category whether it is 10% or 90% oxidized. See Tony Gebely's Tea: A User's Guide or my post https://tillermantea.net/2017/05/black- ... long-back/ .‎ I also did some research on the origin of the name "Oriental Beauty" that you can read here https://tillermantea.net/2017/11/orientalbeauty/.
Somehow I did not read this when it was posted. An explanation of classification or perhaps one should say an argument made that teas should be classified by how they are processed, is edifying and interesting. Thank you.

On the more humorous side, in my building, most of the tenants think that green tea comes from one species of tea, oolong from another, black from another..... I wonder if some of them picture a tea tree bearing teabags as its fruit. If I could paint, I'd create such a picture. cheers.
User avatar
esontea
Vendor
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:00 am
Location: DYL (95k), Taiwan
Contact:

Tue May 01, 2018 3:53 am

There are many ways to classify tea
Regardless of the shape,degree og fermentaion,leaves color,and roasting which affect taste,but it is generally classified by variety and processing method.
However, we still take other details as reference when buying tea.
The following flow chart shows the major tea processing of major teas as reference.
Image
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:23 pm

This conversation (and another one) has me thinking about how similar an Oriental Beauty is to a Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong I've been having. Both are medium-high oxidized (+-70%), medium roast, have sweet honey ripe fruit aroma and notes, with amber liquor. And both a bug bitten before being picked, so why is one classified as Red Tea the other as Oriental Beauty?

The Oriental Beauty is top of the line from Te Company in NYC 'Oriental Beauty Grand' and the Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong from Origin Tea.
Mi Xiang Hong Cha, literally means red tea with honey aroma. Hualian County on the east coast is most famous for producing this tea. Not sure of cultivar used.
Oriental Beauty Grand is from Emei, Hsinchu County, using Qingxin da mao cultivar, bitten by tea jassid.
User avatar
Tillerman
Vendor
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Napa, CA
Contact:

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:46 pm

Victoria wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:23 pm
This conversation (and another one) has me thinking about how similar an Oriental Beauty is to a Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong I've been having. Both are medium-high oxidized (+-70%), medium roast, have sweet honey ripe fruit aroma and notes, with amber liquor. And both a bug bitten before being picked, so why is one classified as Red Tea the other as Oriental Beauty?

The Oriental Beauty is top of the line from Te Company in NYC 'Oriental Beauty Grand' and the Hualien Mixiang Red Oolong from Origin Tea.
Mi Xiang Hong Cha, literally means red tea with honey aroma. Hualian County on the east coast is most famous for producing this tea.
Oriental Beauty Grand is from Emei, Hsinchu County, using Qingxin da mao cultivar, bitten by tea jassid.
I'm not sure that I have anything new to add to this discussion but I'll try.

Firstly, black tea is not a "fully" oxidized tea. As Will Battle has pointed out in "The World Tea Encyclopaedia" the oxidation levels of black tea are routinely adjusted in order to achieve particular flavor profiles. In other words, black tea is a partially oxidized tea - highly oxidized to be sure but partially nonetheless. In Taiwan, the difference in oxidation levels between say the black tea Hong Yu and the oolong teal Bai Hao are often de minimis. They are processed differently with rolling occurring before oxidation for the black tea and after oxidation for the oolong tea. Teas are best classified according to processing method, not oxidation level.

As to the Mi Xiang, this is an oolong; a red oolong. Red oolongs, or Hong Shui oolongs, are just ones that are highly oxidized and roasted, These are not the same as Hong Cha which is red tea (or black tea in the west.)
User avatar
Tillerman
Vendor
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Napa, CA
Contact:

Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:49 pm

My comment is applicable here but perhaps so in the "What oolong are you drinking" thread.
Post Reply