Red Oolong tea

Semi-oxidized tea
miig
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Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:48 am

helotea wrote:
Sat Dec 18, 2021 7:09 am
There are some good red Oolong in Taiwan. It is for sure.
Yeah definitely. There probably has been a misunderstanding - i didn't mean to imply this weren't the case, just that I couldn't recommend Red Alishan, even though TTC certainly has good Red Oolongs in general which I can recommend.
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harrison1986
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Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:54 am

miig wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:51 pm
Red Alishan - no. But Taiwan Tea Crafts has some good Red Oolongs in general.
Is there a specific one that you would recommend? Is there one you are currently drinking and enjoying at the moment? I just really want to avoid another disappointing tea, as much as possible.
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aet
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Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:57 pm

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:47 am
helotea wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:15 pm
Red oolong tea....
Tea experts use Oolong tea leafs to make them into black tea taste ,so it looks red color as you can see.
Some tastes bitter inside the mouth. Some don't) .

This one ,it tastes smooth inside the mouth and it has strong after taste after drinking it which is the feature of Taiwan Tea.

Sweetness keeps lingering inside the mouth for a while.
Thank you for a post about red oolong, tea which does not get much attention. I am puzzled by your post a bit. I think it is simpler to say that red oolong is tea leaves that are oxidized more than green oolong & less than black tea. Tea producers allow leaves that could be green tea or green oolong (lightly oxidized) to oxidize for more time before the "Kill Green" step of the production process (application of heat) which stops oxidation. (Black tea is fully oxidized.) In Taiwan I often heard the word "fermentation" instead of oxidation; however, fermentation means something is added to leaves (such as bacteria). Pu-erh is a fermented tea.

It is difficult to find red oolong that is only oxidized. Most of the time what I found was also roasted which may have added desired flavor & character but buried red oolong's uniqueness. In Taiwan I did find one red oolong that is not roasted much which allows some of the original flavors (not from roasting) to remain.

cheers
I also prefer to use "oxidation" with black ( red ) tea production , but do you know how that part is done in red oolongs?
I'm asking because when I was at our Fengqing tea farmer years ago and he was making his Yesheng Hong ( wild black ) , the fresh tea leaves were in big plastic crate covered by thick , but breathable , canvas. When he opened it , the disgusting sour ( almost like somebody had puked ) odor came out. ( the similar notes of sourness you can experience in fresh made Shai Hong - sun dried blacks , as they are not high heat processed after so these notes are imprinted in taste , yet they will diminish by some time and turn to sweet jam like taste )
He said : the leaves are 发酵 "fa jiao" - means fermenting.
Of course it's not as long as the shu puerh is made , but I'm not entirely sure that NON bacteria are involved there. You know what I mean?
The farmer is ex tea factory worker so I believe the terms he uses is what he learned there and generally on tea market you also can hear vendors using term fermentation for black teas.

The term 氧化 "yang hua" - oxidation , we generally use for already made dry tea leaf ( sheng puer mao cha usually ) when it's in loose form. I think it's because fresh tea leaf has a lots of water so even if spread on cooled bed , some bacterial activity is inevitable ...just my assumption.
We say is , that leaving leaf too long yang hua in Kunming is not good coz loosing it's moisture and therefore aroma / taste. ( in humid places like GZ absorbing too much moisture and defect is the same, just notes imprinted in taste are different )
Although it's transforming it self into the sweet part , but not preserving much of original notes. That's why we keep sheng mao cha in big zip lock bags , to slow it all down ( not Chinese vendors / producers of course , because they have big boxes in storage , we keep only few kg of some interesting ones )
In this case is also related the pressing of sheng puerh.
When you press too soft, it's oxidizing faster than aging ( in that bacterial level which is happening inside of the cake where air access is limited ) . Therefore some of my friends who do high end puerh ,they chose harder press ( not as hard as tie bing from XG of course ) , to preserve the most of the original flavor.

Sorry to swing away from the original topic , just thought it would be beneficial info related to fermentation / oxidation.
Ethan Kurland
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Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:35 pm

I can understand how tea that is packed in a crate covered by canvas can be a fermented red oolong while tea in a pile oxidized openly in the sun can also be a red oolong. Perhaps both ways can put brews in cups that are very similar. (Leading back to the familiar situation, one does not know how a tea will taste except by tasting it.)

There may be people who don't want to use fermented tea & people who seek fermented tea; so, it would be useful for the use of the terms to be consistent. I often feel that descriptions of teas offer a lot of unnecessary information; yet, I think when a tea is fermented, we should know it (because it sounds disgusting; or, it might actually directly bother some people who are not remembering the stink you describe :P :?: ).

Cheers
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harrison1986
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Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:01 pm

harrison1986 wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:08 pm
miig wrote:
Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:51 pm
Red Alishan - no. But Taiwan Tea Crafts has some good Red Oolongs in general.
Thanks for the recommendation. I found this there- "Lishan High Mountain Organic Red Oolong Tea". Um, yes please! Lol.
@miig I ended up buying this tea, and brewed two separate pots today. The last time I tried a Red Oolong, it was the spectacular Norbu Red Alishan Oolong recommended by @debunix. That is a very hard Tea to measure up to.

The tea I bought is Organic, so I am assuming that is why it is about x10 less in flavor and taste. Not bad, but very very mellow in comparison. I truly wish I could find a Red Oolong that is somewhat comparable to the Norbu Alishan, as it is always sold out now 😞.
Does anyone know of a tea that is comparable in taste, that is also not exorbitantly pricy?
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LeoFox
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Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:08 am

aet wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:57 pm

I'm asking because when I was at our Fengqing tea farmer years ago and he was making his Yesheng Hong ( wild black ) , the fresh tea leaves were in big plastic crate covered by thick , but breathable , canvas. When he opened it , the disgusting sour ( almost like somebody had puked ) odor came out. ( the similar notes of sourness you can experience in fresh made Shai Hong - sun dried blacks , as they are not high heat processed after so these notes are imprinted in taste , yet they will diminish by some time and turn to sweet jam like taste )
He said : the leaves are 发酵 "fa jiao" - means fermenting.
Of course it's not as long as the shu puerh is made , but I'm not entirely sure that NON bacteria are involved there. You know what I mean?
Found this:
There are two methods of fermentation, warm and cold. Cold fermentation is when the tea is left at room temperature overnight, usually cold in tea country's spring. Warm fermentation is when the tea is placed into an enclosed space with a maintained amount of moisture and temperature, which can be done through charcoal ash and water bin or by machine. 

Wet fermentation is a new and controversial third method of adding moisture directly to the leaves. The time to ferment the tea varies on the environment. It can be as little as two hours or as long as over ten.
https://tea-drunk.com/tea-fundamentals-red-tea

Could this nasty smell be result of wet ferment?
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aet
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Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:51 pm

[/quote]

https://tea-drunk.com/tea-fundamentals-red-tea

Could this nasty smell be result of wet ferment?
[/quote]

they don't add any water there. but yes, it is a smell of tea leaves fermenting ( as any other stuff with enzymes would I guess ). The point of " well " / fully processed of black tea is to get rid of this smell / taste in final product. Either by post heat processing ( drying / roasting ) or leave it to settle down ( age a bit ) .
That's why shai hongs new are not so good . Same some Dianhongs have , as foreigners like to promote "Sweet potato" taste, it's actually that post fermented taste ( it's like when u boil potatoes and open the pot ). You can smell it from lid of gaiwan ( I think I mention that in blog from our trip to FQ when searching good blacks ) .
As I also mention in blog ( quality of tea I think it is ) that some reds , specially those low heat processed , tips golden color DH ..etc. are not good as fresh coz still might have that tail of processing in taste ( depends how final job done on it ) . But some vendors ( probably comes from CN marketing ) found the way how to "sweeting that up with a potato " ;-) to make it sell-able ;-)
Of course , as Chinese say " luo bo bai cai " - each to his taste , so if somebody likes that taste, why not. The reason I'm writing that is to let people realize the background of that taste ( same as you learn with cooking ). So it's the processing and not some special varietal or high quality causing that.

In addition : the not fully finished heat processing is also done to give a longer life time to black tea so wholesale buyers are more interested ( as they have less time pressure to sell ) . In one tea town in Lincang we were in one production factory where they purposely make "not finished" black which was awfully disgusting . They told us, it's for customized black tea purposes. Means : client comes and requests post-processing based on his/ her requirement ( roast temperature , time etc. )
How long the leaf can last in this "unfinished" shape in some decent quality , I do not know, but certainly it had opened my eyes about whole tea biz here ;-D
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