Experiments with High-Mountain O

Semi-oxidized tea
Noonie
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:30 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:09 am

This is my go-to parameters for high mountain:

About 1.5 tsp, or cover bottom of 120ml gaiwan

1st and 2nd: 85C, 35s
3rd: 90C 1:00
4th: 95C 1:30
5th: boil 2:00
6th: boil 2:30
7th: boil 3:00

While the last two are fading, they’re still quite flavoured and not astringent.
wildisthewind
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:27 am
Location: USA

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 am

Tillerman wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:35 pm
I use 6g/100ml across all oolong teas and am experimenting with hotter water (just off the boil) and significantly shorter steep times. The results are very appealing. That said 1) as mentioned, gaoshan will not give you anywhere near the number of steeps as a say puer (just as a silver needles will not give you the same number of steeps ans a gaoshan) and 2) wouldn't you rather have 4 nice steeps (or 1 or 2) than 10 mediocre ones - I certainly would. Counting steeps is a mugs game (pun intended) that usually ends in disappointment.
This doesn't line up at all with my experience of Yin Zhen. The good ones I've had (TeaHong, Song Tea) last for many steeps more than I'm willing to drink. At least 10, whereas gaoshan (of decent quality: most recently H.Y. Chen's Da Yu Lin) never gets past 7 or 8.
User avatar
ShuShu
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm
Location: New York

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:33 am

wildisthewind wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 am
This doesn't line up at all with my experience of Yin Zhen. The good ones I've had (TeaHong, Song Tea) last for many steeps more than I'm willing to drink. At least 10, whereas gaoshan (of decent quality: most recently H.Y. Chen's Da Yu Lin) never gets past 7 or 8.
How do you brew yours?
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:37 am

It is always interesting to read how we are each accustomed to different steep times, proportion of leaf to water, and temp. While quality of leaf and water used, and vessel used to steep will effect outcomes, a large percentage of these variables may actually have to do with our constitution, and our ability to smell and therefore taste. This topic is being discussed in this thread right now;
Lessons from Anosmia: Smell and Taste
User avatar
ShuShu
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm
Location: New York

Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:12 am

Tillerman wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:35 pm
I use 6g/100ml across all oolong teas and am experimenting with hotter water (just off the boil) and significantly shorter steep times. The results are very appealing. That said 1) as mentioned, gaoshan will not give you anywhere near the number of steeps as a say puer (just as a silver needles will not give you the same number of steeps ans a gaoshan) and 2) wouldn't you rather have 4 nice steeps (or 1 or 2) than 10 mediocre ones - I certainly would. Counting steeps is a mugs game (pun intended) that usually ends in disappointment.
Thanks for the advice. I suspect that with High Mountain much of the work is done by water temp. High temp - especially off the boil - extract a lot from the leaf in a manner that can't really be compensated by longer brews or relatively more leaf. But, as you say, those first brews are so marvelous so who cares?
At any rate, that was a good lesson for me on the importance of temp
wildisthewind
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:27 am
Location: USA

Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:56 pm

ShuShu wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:33 am
wildisthewind wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 am
This doesn't line up at all with my experience of Yin Zhen. The good ones I've had (TeaHong, Song Tea) last for many steeps more than I'm willing to drink. At least 10, whereas gaoshan (of decent quality: most recently H.Y. Chen's Da Yu Lin) never gets past 7 or 8.
How do you brew yours?
It varies pretty considerably. Anything from 3g in 250ml steeped for 2-3 minutes (which I'd expect to yield 3 or maybe 4 infusions) to 4g in 85 ml steeped for 30s (which I'd count on for a solid 10). I don't always weigh, but since it's a low-density tea I don't think I ever go much above that.

Oh, and water at a full boil.
User avatar
ShuShu
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm
Location: New York

Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:09 pm

Bok wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:23 pm
Really good quality gaoshan should be able to go for at least 8 rounds, I would say the max is 12, but with last few rounds decreasing in flavour a lot.
Bok, how much brewing time do you give each round?
(I assume you use boiling water)
User avatar
tealifehk
Vendor
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:58 am
Location: Hong Kong
Contact:

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 pm

I agree with Bok. A good indicator of leaf quality is 'resistance,' as the Chinese call it: how many infusions the leaves have to give before they die out.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:51 pm

ShuShu wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:09 pm
Bok wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:23 pm
Really good quality gaoshan should be able to go for at least 8 rounds, I would say the max is 12, but with last few rounds decreasing in flavour a lot.
Bok, how much brewing time do you give each round?
(I assume you use boiling water)
I am not counting (as I find that distractive to the enjoyment), I go with something highly scientific as my gut feeling :mrgreen:
It is a mix of experience, being used to the same kind of teas for a long time and watching the pot and leaves.
Also good quality high mountain does not need that close attention, the better the tea, the easier they are to brew.

Unless you suck out all the flavour in the first infusion by overbrewing, the tea will last as long as its quality allows.

Open leave oolongs are a different story, more attention is warranted. The end of the pack usually as well, as there will be more small pieces and tea dust.

And yes, hot water is key!
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:53 pm

tealifehk wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 pm
I agree with Bok. A good indicator of leaf quality is 'resistance,' as the Chinese call it: how many infusions the leaves have to give before they die out.
Absolutely, good high moutain should last at least 6 rounds and that would be only good not a superb quality tea.
User avatar
Tillerman
Vendor
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Napa, CA
Contact:

Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 am

Bok wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:53 pm
tealifehk wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:49 pm
I agree with Bok. A good indicator of leaf quality is 'resistance,' as the Chinese call it: how many infusions the leaves have to give before they die out.
Absolutely, good high moutain should last at least 6 rounds and that would be only good not a superb quality tea.
I fear that I disagree with you both on this score. Although it is true that poor quality tea will give few infusions, it is not necessarily the case that good and even superb quality tea will give 6 or 10 or whatever number of steeps. So much is dependent upon how the steeps are managed and what the leaf to water ratio is. I for example use 6 g/100 ml, but I also like my tea fairly well extracted (I don't say that is best, it's just the way I like it) and I am fully prepared to give up aroma for the sake of fuller mouth feel. I also am fully prepared to give up a number of steeps to obtain this - the more you extract on each steep the fewer the total number of steeps you can get from a given tea. We may all know how many steeps we each can expect from a given tea, but to generalize and say that if X isn't reached the tea is poor, simply doesn't hold. As I've said elsewhere, counting steeps is a mug's game (pun intended.)
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:07 am

Tillerman wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 am
I fear that I disagree with you both on this score. Although it is true that poor quality tea will give few infusions, it is not necessarily the case that good and even superb quality tea will give 6 or 10 or whatever number of steeps. So much is dependent upon how the steeps are managed and what the leaf to water ratio is. I for example use 6 g/100 ml, but I also like my tea fairly well extracted (I don't say that is best, it's just the way I like it) and I am fully prepared to give up aroma for the sake of fuller mouth feel. I also am fully prepared to give up a number of steeps to obtain this - the more you extract on each steep the fewer the total number of steeps you can get from a given tea. We may all know how many steeps we each can expect from a given tea, but to generalize and say that if X isn't reached the tea is poor, simply doesn't hold. As I've said elsewhere, counting steeps is a mug's game (pun intended.)
Of course it depends on the way you brew it. What I was referring to is that with a standard Taiwan gong fu setup 6 rounds should be achievable with a good (high mountain) tea. So if it less than the tea has a problem – or the person brewing it.

Personally, I do not like to excede 6 brews even with my best teas: as a German saying has it: “One should stop, when you have the most fun”
Get the best out of the tea, then stop and enjoy the aftertaste. Which is of course a luxury, being close to the source…

A tea friend of mine brews his top Lishan no more than three rounds, because he is just after that particular flavour profile of steeps 1-3. That I do consider a bit of a waste! But it his tea and enjoyment so who am I to judge :D
User avatar
tealifehk
Vendor
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:58 am
Location: Hong Kong
Contact:

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:18 am

Yep, with standard parameters, Bok's figures make sense. If you like to push your tea harder (I do too), then yes, you will get fewer infusions. If tea gives you the number of infusions (or more!) that you expect from it when brewing it your way, the material is good. If you get two infusions, something's probably wrong!
User avatar
ShuShu
Posts: 335
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:36 pm
Location: New York

Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:43 am

Bok wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:51 pm
Unless you suck out all the flavour in the first infusion by overbrewing, the tea will last as long as its quality allows.
I suspect that this is what I sometimes do. This is why I ask about brewing time.
i have recently started experimenting with boiling water, which extract a lot of taste but I fear I hav yet to find the right balance
User avatar
Tillerman
Vendor
Posts: 446
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:58 pm
Location: Napa, CA
Contact:

Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:57 am

Bok wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:07 am
Tillerman wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:21 am
I fear that I disagree with you both on this score. Although it is true that poor quality tea will give few infusions, it is not necessarily the case that good and even superb quality tea will give 6 or 10 or whatever number of steeps. So much is dependent upon how the steeps are managed and what the leaf to water ratio is. I for example use 6 g/100 ml, but I also like my tea fairly well extracted (I don't say that is best, it's just the way I like it) and I am fully prepared to give up aroma for the sake of fuller mouth feel. I also am fully prepared to give up a number of steeps to obtain this - the more you extract on each steep the fewer the total number of steeps you can get from a given tea. We may all know how many steeps we each can expect from a given tea, but to generalize and say that if X isn't reached the tea is poor, simply doesn't hold. As I've said elsewhere, counting steeps is a mug's game (pun intended.)
Of course it depends on the way you brew it. What I was referring to is that with a standard Taiwan gong fu setup 6 rounds should be achievable with a good (high mountain) tea. So if it less than the tea has a problem – or the person brewing it.

Personally, I do not like to excede 6 brews even with my best teas: as a German saying has it: “One should stop, when you have the most fun”
Get the best out of the tea, then stop and enjoy the aftertaste. Which is of course a luxury, being close to the source…

A tea friend of mine brews his top Lishan no more than three rounds, because he is just after that particular flavour profile of steeps 1-3. That I do consider a bit of a waste! But it his tea and enjoyment so who am I to judge :D
Fully agree with you now. Bok. And I like that German saying!
Post Reply