What Oolong Are You Drinking

[Victoria]

Finally, enjoying tea after a few weeks of travel with subpar water and very little down time to sit down, focus and enjoy a session. Treated myself this morning to Hau Ying Chen‘s Winter LiShan, Wild Primitive Forest. Rich evergreen forest notes, spicy, sweet buttery smooth mouthfeel, and highly aromatic. To get full flavor profile with this LiShan, I find it is better to use more leaf than with his roasted DongDing. For extended morning sessions of Chen’s Roasted DongDing I’ve been using 12gr/225ml/205f/ 73sec. in Hokujo’s stoneware kyusu. Today I found this LiShan is better at 17gr/225ml, it was too thin otherwise. I typically reserve this very special LiShan for smaller afternoon sessions, but decided to treat myself.

Later, an afternoon session with Lazy Cat Tea’s 2017 House Rougui, a kind gift from pedant. Aromatics are very rich, as are tasting notes of liquor; rich warming and sweet mahogany camphor notes. Liquor is a little smoky as well. Steeped at 5gr/60ml/205f/40sec. in a delicate gaiwan from Origin Tea via Ferg. Next time, I look forward to steeping this Rougui in a Yixing pot, it needs that extra heat, and I’ll use slightly more leaf/water as well. As pedant mentioned elsewhere, Lazy Cat’s packaging is beautiful, delicately handwritten and very nice graphics over self sealing craft pouch.

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I enjoyed dumping all the liquor directly right into this 1880’s Canton bowl.

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[Ethan Kurland]

Chinese people definitely have view of life different from....... Cigarettes have names like "Long Life" and tea packages have skeletons. The craft packaging that can tightened with the attached stay is a classy touch by Lazycat. Glad you are enjoying your tea Victoria.

[Bok]

Chinese people definitely have view of life different from....... Cigarettes have names like "Long Life" and tea packages have skeletons. The craft packaging that can tightened with the attached stay is a classy touch by Lazycat. Glad you are enjoying your tea Victoria.

Trust me no Chinese will ever put a skeleton or anything remotely related to death on a tea packaging... you can be sure there is a Westerner behind that even if they are operating out of China. This kind of packaging would have a hard time selling in China.

[Victoria]

Chinese people definitely have view of life different from....... Cigarettes have names like "Long Life" and tea packages have skeletons. The craft packaging that can tightened with the attached stay is a classy touch by Lazycat. Glad you are enjoying your tea Victoria.

Trust me no Chinese will ever put a skeleton or anything remotely related to death on a tea packaging... you can be sure there is a Westerner behind that even if they are operating out of China. This kind of packaging would have a hard time selling in China.

Lazy Cat tea is in China, out of Shanghai. Here is another interesting package design with a reindeer. I placed the 6th steep of their House Rougui into an early 90s Yixing QingShuiNi shuiping vía Origin tea, for further extended steeps, and am now sampling their 2017 Daoshuikeng Rougui from ZhengYan World Heritage area of Wuyishan. The difference is very subtle; aromatics might even be less than House, but liquor is richer, with more body. Maybe less noticeable smokiness. Nice expansive camphor aftertaste notes in mouth. Gets bitter faster though than House if overstepped. The cup on left is the 1st steep that I’ve saved, as recommended, to let it cool and have a little later. Very good quality Rougui, thank you pedant.

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[Bok]

Chinese people definitely have view of life different from....... Cigarettes have names like "Long Life" and tea packages have skeletons. The craft packaging that can tightened with the attached stay is a classy touch by Lazycat. Glad you are enjoying your tea Victoria.

Trust me no Chinese will ever put a skeleton or anything remotely related to death on a tea packaging... you can be sure there is a Westerner behind that even if they are operating out of China. This kind of packaging would have a hard time selling in China.

Lazy Cat tea is in China, out of Shanghai. Here is another interesting package design with a reindeer. I placed the 6th steep of their House Rougui into an early 90s Yixing QingShuiNi shuiping vía Origin tea, for further extended steeps, and am now sampling their 2017 Daoshuikeng Rougui from ZhengYan World Heritage area of Wuyishan. The difference is very subtle; aromatics might even be less than House, but liquor is richer, with more body. Maybe less noticeable smokiness. Nice expansive camphor aftertaste notes in mouth. Gets bitter faster though than House if overstepped. The cup on left is the 1st steep that I’ve saved, as recommended, to let it cool and have a little later. Very good quality Rougui, thank you pedant.


6326A2CE-3470-476B-A693-44FAE2F35D72.jpeg

I am aware that they are operating out of China, but for sure they have at least one foreign owner and are only selling to Westerners. Ironic designs with skeletons is not something with which you can sell food related things in the Chinese market.

Says as much on the website: "...Living in China since 2015..."

[Teachronicles]

I'm also having yancha tonight, unwisely as it's 11 where I'm at. 2017 bai rui xiang from wuyi origin. I had there blended dhp the other day and wasn't overly impressed, but I'm really enjoy the bai rui xiang. 6g in a 90ml pot. Worked my way through oldwaystea sampler and am now working my way through wuyi origin teas. So far this one and the qilan from old ways have been my favorite. 3rd place was the laocong shuixan from old ways.

[octopus]

I am aware that they are operating out of China, but for sure they have at least one foreign owner and are only selling to Westerners. Ironic designs with skeletons is not something with which you can sell food related things in the Chinese market.

Says as much on the website: "...Living in China since 2015..."

Hello, this is correct as you quoted from the website.

It is also correct that printing skulls and skeletons is not a good decision for increasing tea sales although true for any country as there are people who find them not so pleasant and i can understand this and offered to change prints to cute ones before upon request. in general it all doesnt really interest me too much since I just make whatever i like.

About the packaging btw I should note that those pictured are not the normal packaging but a special request from our friend pedant. Normal packaging is not too different about the label but usually comes in 50g tins like those pictured on the website.



now for brewing recommendations for rougui here is what i suggest:

-use around 1g/15ml water ratio (so maybe 7/8g for a normal gaiwan)
-preheat gaiwan and use boiling water of good quality
-be quite fast in the first few infusions, even 10/15 seconds or so then increase according to taste
-keep very first infusion to drink as last when cooled down

other yancha can be brewed in other ways and some even boiled so don't take it too strictly.

by the way, I realize the quality that makes zhengyan rougui special might be hard to recognize. it is a strong flavor called yanyun. with enough experience drinking yancha however this can be recognized and regardless if liked or disliked is what makes certain tea special. banyan teas can have yanyun too it just varies in intensity usually and is not as common. I don't recommend zhengyan tea for those unfamiliar with yun taste not because anyone would dislike it but because what is special about it might go unnoticed, one can easily be cheated and would generally enjoy it just as much as a very nice and well made banyan tea that costs 5 times less.

anyways good luck and thanks for the nice words about our packagings. if anyone has further questions feel free to message me

[ShuShu]

by the way, I realize the quality that makes zhengyan rougui special might be hard to recognize. it is a strong flavor called yanyun. with enough experience drinking yancha however this can be recognized and regardless if liked or disliked is what makes certain tea special.

I was under the impression that the yanyun flavor is more prevalent or stronger with med/low fired yancha. A Banyan (or other) tea that was med fired is more likely to have a yanyun. Would you agree? Maybe it’s the fruityness that med firing generates that brings it out?

[octopus]

by the way, I realize the quality that makes zhengyan rougui special might be hard to recognize. it is a strong flavor called yanyun. with enough experience drinking yancha however this can be recognized and regardless if liked or disliked is what makes certain tea special.

I was under the impression that the yanyun flavor is more prevalent or stronger with med/low fired yancha. A Banyan (or other) tea that was med fired is more likely to have a yanyun. Would you agree? Maybe it’s the fruityness that med firing generates that brings it out?

I would completely disagree. Never heard of such thing.

I think there is a problem of communication, most people (in china or elsewhere) have no idea what yanyun flavor is or what this name means or why certain tea is special. They simply heard somewhere that yancha has this flavour and try to find it in whatever they are drinking. As a result it might be some different flavor that is not the one i mean. Since flavors are impossible to describe is pointless to even try.

When drinking a lot of yancha you learn to distinguish the flavor of a cultivar from the flavor given by processing from the flavor given by picking time from the flavor given by roasting from the flavor given by terroir and that of aging and storage.

Now it is quite rare to find tea with yanyun (or whatever one chooses to call this flavor, rock flavor whatever). It is a flavor given by the terroir where the tea is growing not from the processing. Different cultivars will reflect more or less of this flavor and the cultivar considered the one that will show it more clearly is rougui (which is why rougui is grown in zhengyan area and is the favourite cultivar of wuyishan)

in the end i don't think one should worry about yanyun too much and i suggest not to buy zhengyan tea to avoid the issue at least until one is more familiar. same for anything called laocong or jinjunmei.

[ShuShu]

I would completely disagree. Never heard of such thing.
I think there is a problem of communication, most people (in china or elsewhere) have no idea what yanyun flavor is or what this name means or why certain tea is special. They simply heard somewhere that yancha has this flavour and try to find it in whatever they are drinking. As a result it might be some different flavor that is not the one i mean. Since flavors are impossible to describe is pointless to even try.

When drinking a lot of yancha you learn to distinguish the flavor of a cultivar from the flavor given by processing from the flavor given by picking time from the flavor given by roasting from the flavor given by terroir and that of aging and storage.

Now it is quite rare to find tea with yanyun (or whatever one chooses to call this flavor, rock flavor whatever). It is a flavor given by the terroir where the tea is growing not from the processing. Different cultivars will reflect more or less of this flavor and the cultivar considered the one that will show it more clearly is rougui (which is why rougui is grown in zhengyan area and is the favourite cultivar of wuyishan)

in the end i don't think one should worry about yanyun too much and i suggest not to buy zhengyan tea to avoid the issue at least until one is more familiar. same for anything called laocong or jinjunmei.

I think I have just put things in a confused way. I didn't mean to say that processing generates this special flavor. Rather, I heard in a lecture/lesson that indeed these special flavors are mostly present in rare and expensive teas though, as you say, they can also be found in less expensive teas (only if you brew it correctly), and that your best bet in finding such relatively inexpensive teas with such flavors is to go after the less roasted ones. It was just a tip.
I'm not a very experienced yancha drinker (though I do drink a lot of yancha and especially rougui) but I have met experienced drinkers who are obsessed with getting the yanyun (though they don't really care where the tea is coming from). Sometimes they leaf their tea so hard to extract it that it is not so easy to drink. I just think that this is interesting as one of them told me (I guess cynically) that being obsessed with zhengyan is foolish since the real obsession is the yanyun
This discussion got me craving for some yanyun (assuming I can find it ) -- I hope I have some zhengyan rougui left in my stash... haha

[Bok]

Hello, this is correct as you quoted from the website.

It is also correct that printing skulls and skeletons is not a good decision for increasing tea sales although true for any country as there are people who find them not so pleasant and i can understand this and offered to change prints to cute ones before upon request. in general it all doesnt really interest me too much since I just make whatever i like.

About the packaging btw I should note that those pictured are not the normal packaging but a special request from our friend pedant. Normal packaging is not too different about the label but usually comes in 50g tins like those pictured on the website.



now for brewing recommendations for rougui here is what i suggest:

-use around 1g/15ml water ratio (so maybe 7/8g for a normal gaiwan)
-preheat gaiwan and use boiling water of good quality
-be quite fast in the first few infusions, even 10/15 seconds or so then increase according to taste
-keep very first infusion to drink as last when cooled down

other yancha can be brewed in other ways and some even boiled so don't take it too strictly.

by the way, I realize the quality that makes zhengyan rougui special might be hard to recognize. it is a strong flavor called yanyun. with enough experience drinking yancha however this can be recognized and regardless if liked or disliked is what makes certain tea special. banyan teas can have yanyun too it just varies in intensity usually and is not as common. I don't recommend zhengyan tea for those unfamiliar with yun taste not because anyone would dislike it but because what is special about it might go unnoticed, one can easily be cheated and would generally enjoy it just as much as a very nice and well made banyan tea that costs 5 times less.

anyways good luck and thanks for the nice words about our packagings. if anyone has further questions feel free to message me

Thanks for clearing that up and the useful recommendations!

[octopus]

they don't really care where the tea is coming from ... being obsessed with zhengyan is foolish

yes now that is something i can agree with!

there is no point in drinking tea from xxx location, it is not a name that matters, it doesnt matter if the tea "is real or fake" as we often see people caring so much about online. this isnt just about just yancha but about a lot of tea. what it matters and the reason why certain teas become, as a consequence, famous it is always a certain special quality and flavor of a tea that is worth seeking. So yes that is also what i would say. Cynical or not it is just the truth: what matters is the tea not where it is from.

Now i wouldnt call yanyun an obsession or whatever and i dont think brewing has much influence on it, the yun flavor is very clear even from just smelling the leaves. It is just a flavor which yeah some people me included quite like.

Also i dont know about lectures but a tea being expensive or cheap is just decided by who is buying or selling it, it doesn't mean too much. When a tea has yun though it will usually cost more because of the laws or demand and offer. Consider that each year there are maybe 3000kg of zhengyan tea produced, now imagine how many people want this tea and there goes the price. Just wanting to drink a tea without understanding even why is special though is sure a way to get cheated and disappointed.

I think what you might have understood with this "less roasted" thing is to avoid the export style of teas, like those that are so roasted they dont taste like anything else than roast for example found in asian supermarkets or south east asia and so on. Those yeah all have no tea flavor, are made from cheap material usually blends and wont have any yun for sure. However most teas simply will be nice to drink but have no yun and actually the best teas i think, those with stronger flavor will be those you can actually roast stronger (but is a completely different kind of roasting, done by producers rather than merchants) those are quite rare.

The same discussion could be made about any tea, is not important that your laocong xxx is really whatever years old, what matters is it has cong wei or not (and if one even know what congwei is) etc etc

[Tillerman]

Bravo, octopus, bravo!

[Victoria]

by the way, I realize the quality that makes zhengyan rougui special might be hard to recognize. it is a strong flavor called yanyun. with enough experience drinking yancha however this can be recognized and regardless if liked or disliked is what makes certain tea special. banyan teas can have yanyun too it just varies in intensity usually and is not as common. I don't recommend zhengyan tea for those unfamiliar with yun taste not because anyone would dislike it but because what is special about it might go unnoticed, one can easily be cheated and would generally enjoy it just as much as a very nice and well made banyan tea that costs 5 times less.

Thank you for your quality Rougui and cool packaging designs. With your Daoshuikeng Rougui, I felt an expansive cooling feeling /aftertaste in my mouth, maybe camphor or peppermint like. When you speak of Yan Yun with yancha can you describe this a bit more? I interpret this as rock minerality after effect, that I have found in certain quality Taiwan high mountain oolongs, like FuShoushan. I also tasted high notes of rock minerality in Origin Tea’s ‘2004 Wuyi Hui Yuan Nei GuiDong (FengFeKeng) Tie LuoHan’ & in 2088 Tea’s ‘2015 Wu Yuan Jian Ban Tian Yao handmade’. With rock minerality, I experience a certain effervescent minerality, as an after effect, coating the inner mouth.

[Kale]

there is no point in drinking tea from xxx location, it is not a name that matters, it doesnt matter if the tea "is real or fake" as we often see people caring so much about online. this isnt just about just yancha but about a lot of tea. what it matters and the reason why certain teas become, as a consequence, famous it is always a certain special quality and flavor of a tea that is worth seeking. So yes that is also what i would say. Cynical or not it is just the truth: what matters is the tea not where it is from.

This is a very common view, but it seems to me somewhat overstated. Some people are lucky enough to have a lot of knowledgeable friends and trustable sources in China, as well as access to and familiarity with the areas. These folks may certainly claim that "chasing Zhengyan tea is foolish". But for many drinkers who love the yanyun though lack these connections, “chasing Zhengyan” is a very good option. I have seen countless vendors who claim that their tea exhibits a very strong yanyun. Of course, one can just stick to a vendor that one trusts, but it is also fun to experiment and “chasing Zhengyan” (though in a responsible way) is actually a good way of avoiding disappointments. Indeed, you need to be experienced enough to realize that there is no way that a $0.25/1g tea is a zhengyan, but I don’t understand the claim “ignore locations!”.