What Oolong Are You Drinking

Semi-oxidized tea
Andrew S
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:05 pm

@Bok: yes, I did; like you say, it's an interesting comparison, but probably can't be used by itself to form a conclusion on whether a handmade tea is necessarily 'better', whatever that means (though it's probably about as close as most of us can get, practically, to such a comparison).

They mention on their website that the handmade ones do have a slightly lower roast, but are made from the same material. I found the handmade ones tended to have a 'broader' profile, if that makes any sense.

Given that this is the "Yancha Explorer #1" range, I'm looking forward to trying the next one.

Andrew
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:11 am

Evening shadows…

Some comforting Dongding after a long working day.
Attachments
774AE59E-21BF-4C34-A9DD-BFEEACC2E8F9.jpeg
774AE59E-21BF-4C34-A9DD-BFEEACC2E8F9.jpeg (239.7 KiB) Viewed 3126 times
Andrew S
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:51 pm

I decided to greet the morning by brewing a healthy chunk of Daxue Jiadao's 2017 zhengyan beidou full roast yancha in my very rough interpretation of the Chaozhou gongfu style.

As I suspected, this range of teas does seem to be quite well-suited to this style of brewing (and as I understand it, the tea maker aims to make these teas suitable for this style of brewing).

Playing with this tea in my more usual yancha brewing method (1g per 10mL, no intentionally-crushed leaves, and three breaths for each of the first three infusions) yielded quite an elegant result with an intriguing musky note of some sort in the aftertaste, and the tea lasted for a fair number of brews.

Brewing it very strong in this style today (10g for my 80mL pot, crushing up some of the naturally-crushed leaves in between whole leaves, and six breaths for the first infusion, then three, then nine) yielded a first infusion that's very thick and rich where the roast and the flavour were well-matched, a second infusion with a lovely finish that grew the longer that I kept the tea in my mouth, and a third infusion with a long aftertaste. Each of the infusions rewarded me for keeping them in my mouth, rather than swallowing them quickly.

@tjkdubya: I think that you're correct that this range of teas can yield three or four good infusions if brewed strong before it falls away in terms of flavour, at least if this example is anything to go by. I don't mind drinking tea-flavoured water, though, so I kept brewing this one for a total of nine infusions with this stronger method (just pouring water in, and pouring tea out whenever I needed another brew). After the first three brews, the flavours did diminish somewhat, but the aftertaste persisted with the latter ones, where there was a roastiness which dominated the upfront flavour but then developed into more complex flavours in the aftertaste. Again, keeping the tea in the mouth for a long time yielded the best results.

If I were brewing this tea for other people, then I'd just stop at three brews using this method, because I think that they're the best balanced and interesting, but I'm happy to keep going if it is just for me. I also think that it gives good, but very different, results whether brewed in this strong style or in my more usual yancha style.

I'd be curious to learn how others around here who've tried this range have been brewing these teas.

It'd also be interesting to see how this tea would brew in this strong style if it's aged for a little bit longer.

Andrew
Attachments
_MG_8683.jpg
_MG_8683.jpg (164.25 KiB) Viewed 3091 times
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:07 pm

@Andrew S I would say that three very good brews is what should be expected for good Yancha, I usually stop afterwards as I want to finish on a high note. Some very good Yancha might yield a couple more, but even then I usually don't.

It is not one of those teas that yield a lot of quantity, which makes them more expensive, considering how many good cups I get per gram... but oh well, wasn't it for that special Yancha flavour – otherwise I'd happily spend my money elsewhere.

Price/value is really terrible for Yancha. Spend little and get something atrocious, spend a lot and get something nice, but be poor and feel guilty for doing so.
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:21 pm

Bok, three good brews would be what one should expect of a good brewer approaching Chaozhou gongfu style, not good yancha per se.

A good tea in a certain style might be appropriate in the "3-4 intense brew then done" style of approach. A different good tea in a different style might be better suited to several to a dozen+ brews.

"It is not one of those teas that yield a lot of quantity" - I think this is an unnecessary overgeneralization if you're comparing to other oo, because longevity depends more on bush quality and processing rather than tea genre. Unless you're talking about longevity with respect to Puerh, say.
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:32 pm

Andrew S wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:51 pm
Brewing it very strong in this style today (10g for my 80mL pot, crushing up some of the naturally-crushed leaves in between whole leaves, and six breaths for the first infusion, then three, then nine) yielded a first infusion that's very thick and rich where the roast and the flavour were well-matched, a second infusion with a lovely finish that grew the longer that I kept the tea in my mouth, and a third infusion with a long aftertaste. Each of the infusions rewarded me for keeping them in my mouth, rather than swallowing them quickly.
Andrew, now I'm curious to time my usual rhythm with this tea and find out what I actually do in terms of seconds and/or breaths, because I go by feel. But I already feel like my second steeps are longer than yours. Maybe today!
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:45 pm

As for "usual yancha method" I personally don't have one. Or rather, not just one. Light roasts anywhere from 13 to 20ml per g, medium to full roasts towards 10-15ml per g. Even more, or even less leaves, given each tea and each situation.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:12 am

tjkdubya wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:21 pm
"It is not one of those teas that yield a lot of quantity" - I think this is an unnecessary overgeneralization if you're comparing to other oo, because longevity depends more on bush quality and processing rather than tea genre. Unless you're talking about longevity with respect to Puerh, say.
Not sure about that...

If I compare it to Dancong, Taiwanese Oolong and of course Puerh, these will go at least 7-12 rounds of full flavour cups, before they go down. I might not have met my match or had enough Yancha, but in my experience no Yancha I ever had comes even close to that, at usually at least 2-3 times of the price of other teas in a comparable quality.

It might be my preference of brewing, but if I try to brew it lighter it lacks body and I feel like I have wasted the leaves as I have enjoyed no cup at all, rather than at least 3-4 good ones. If on the other hand I use a longer steep in a higher water to leaf ratio, I find it sucks out everything the leaves have to offer even faster in, maybe 1-2 good brews, on top it does not yield the result I prefer to drink.
Andrew S
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:30 am

It's probably unhelpful that I never time my infusions (but in exchange, I always measure out my doses, since my gongfu is not great enough to work it out by eye). But the length of each breath changes depending upon what I think the tea needs, or how I brewed the last round, or how I'm feeling that day. The number of breaths is just the timer that I use that works for me.

I'm sure that brewing results depend a lot on brewing parameters and preferences, and that preferring different aspects of tea can lead to preferring different styles of brewing.

I like yancha that gives me the kind of feeling that good old puer, liu an and liu bao can give me, and that's what I usually brew for (similarly to how I brew those kinds of teas). Flavour, aroma and aftertaste are secondary considerations for me, so I am not someone who focuses on those aspects of tea, and I can't say how other people might be able to do so.

So, for my more usual brewing style, I get more infusions, more subtlety, more development over the course of the session, but less strength, less concentration, and less emphasis on flavour or aroma. I usually like to see how the yancha changes from brew to brew, and I usually prefer that to seeing what it can give me if I push it hard. But it's fun to try both.

Looking forward to seeing how others brew it as well.

Andrew
Andrew S
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:53 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:40 am

Bok wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:12 am
tjkdubya wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:21 pm
"It is not one of those teas that yield a lot of quantity" - I think this is an unnecessary overgeneralization if you're comparing to other oo, because longevity depends more on bush quality and processing rather than tea genre. Unless you're talking about longevity with respect to Puerh, say.
Not sure about that...

If I compare it to Dancong, Taiwanese Oolong and of course Puerh, these will go at least 7-12 rounds of full flavour cups, before they go down. I might not have met my match or had enough Yancha, but in my experience no Yancha I ever had comes even close to that, at usually at least 2-3 times of the price of other teas in a comparable quality.

It might be my preference of brewing, but if I try to brew it lighter it lacks body and I feel like I have wasted the leaves as I have enjoyed no cup at all, rather than at least 3-4 good ones. If on the other hand I use a longer steep in a higher water to leaf ratio, I find it sucks out everything the leaves have to offer even faster in, maybe 1-2 good brews, on top it does not yield the result I prefer to drink.
@Bok and @tjkdubya, I think that you have both hit the mark on your comments.

If I wanted to extract maximum flavour from yancha, I'd focus on a few concentrated brews to yield a very strong soup, and I'd work to try to make each session give me the best that it can in terms of full flavour for the first frew, or persistent aroma for the second, or long aftertaste for the third, or any combinations thereof, by playing with timing, crushing leaves, arranging leaves, and many other things that affect the result.

However, my preference is to see the kind of feeling that I get from my yancha, and that's why I space the brews out with quicker infusions. Just like a good puer, liu bao or liu an can make me feel relaxed with each brew, despite short infusions times, so too can some good yancha, and I play with the development of their flavour from brew to brew as a bonus. The overall flavour, aroma and aftertastes are bonuses for me.

Andrew
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:25 am

Bok wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:12 am
tjkdubya wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:21 pm
"It is not one of those teas that yield a lot of quantity" - I think this is an unnecessary overgeneralization if you're comparing to other oo, because longevity depends more on bush quality and processing rather than tea genre. Unless you're talking about longevity with respect to Puerh, say.
Not sure about that...

If I compare it to Dancong, Taiwanese Oolong and of course Puerh, these will go at least 7-12 rounds of full flavour cups, before they go down. I might not have met my match or had enough Yancha, but in my experience no Yancha I ever had comes even close to that, at usually at least 2-3 times of the price of other teas in a comparable quality.

It might be my preference of brewing, but if I try to brew it lighter it lacks body and I feel like I have wasted the leaves as I have enjoyed no cup at all, rather than at least 3-4 good ones. If on the other hand I use a longer steep in a higher water to leaf ratio, I find it sucks out everything the leaves have to offer even faster in, maybe 1-2 good brews, on top it does not yield the result I prefer to drink.
Yep, both drink more, and also practice brewing yancha. Seems you're not hitting a sweet spot you're looking for, if the results are oscillating between lacking body vs brewing out too fast.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:29 am

tjkdubya wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:25 am
Seems you're not hitting a sweet spot you're looking for, if the results are oscillating between lacking body vs brewing out too fast.
Well, I do exactly hit my sweet spot with gongfu brewing, happy with 3-6 brews.
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:44 am

Andrew S wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:40 am
If I wanted to extract maximum flavour from yancha, I'd focus on a few concentrated brews to yield a very strong soup, and I'd work to try to make each session give me the best that it can in terms of full flavour for the first frew, or persistent aroma for the second, or long aftertaste for the third, or any combinations thereof, by playing with timing, crushing leaves, arranging leaves, and many other things that affect the result.

However, my preference is to see the kind of feeling that I get from my yancha, and that's why I space the brews out with quicker infusions. Just like a good puer, liu bao or liu an can make me feel relaxed with each brew, despite short infusions times, so too can some good yancha, and I play with the development of their flavour from brew to brew as a bonus. The overall flavour, aroma and aftertastes are bonuses for me.

Andrew
We just did a session of the Beidou, in this little zini. Measures out about 47-48ml top. Preheated/soaked, dried, then added tea by feel, which turned out to be about 6.2g. So that's a bit higher ratio than what you did Andrew, but not too far off.

I then proceeded to brew, but asked my partner to time my steeps, so I can just focus on the rhythm. Aim to get 3 balanced brews out, but not necessarily exhaust the teas, since that's challenging to do in such a small pot even with hot tub bathing. No crushing, and no rinse, today.

Here's how the brews turned out:

1. 40-48s (span is the pour out beginning to end)

2. 92s pour end

3. 120s pour end

So, this is quite different than the 6-3-9 rhythm. No right or wrong, different things will be emphasized. What I feel about the result of my brewing today is that the first steep is overemphasized compared to 2nd and 3rd, whereas I would prefer a different arc, where the 2nd brew 'develops' the story and the 3rd 'resolves' the story, all the while maintaining a level of intensity that doesn't vary by a whole lot.

Then I did a relatively long 4th brew which tells me there's a lot of tea left...

What would I do differently? What are some things to work on? If I shorten the 1st brew that's an easy way out to balance the overall story, but I'm leaving behind even more unsaid, and in any case the body of the tea might be less developed than I would like. How about even longer on 2nd and 3rd brews? I think that's possible, but heat management and timing gets even more difficult, given the pot size, and the especially cooler weather today.

Crush some of the leaves, make a nice chadan, focus on the rhythm, a 2nd steep that seems to 'blossom'... There's a lot one can aim to do better.
Attachments
IMG_20210924_140254~2.jpg
IMG_20210924_140254~2.jpg (101.61 KiB) Viewed 3022 times
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:53 am

@tjkdubya That beautiful little pot probably also gets in the way of concentration! Might be the pictures, but it almost seems as if it already got a little shine.
User avatar
tjkdubya
Vendor
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:57 am
Location: Beijing
Contact:

Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:56 am

Pic taken during 4th steep! I was a good student during the session proper, I promise haha
Post Reply