What Oolong Are You Drinking

Semi-oxidized tea
User avatar
LeoFox
Posts: 1777
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:01 pm
Location: Washington DC

Fri Feb 12, 2021 5:27 am

Balthazar wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:10 am
Just dropping by to say I enjoy reading your reviews and photos, LeoFox. Keep 'em coming
Cheers and happy Chinese new year!
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Feb 12, 2021 3:13 pm

Happy New Year everyone. @LeoFox sounds like a really nice run with DYL.

With slightly cooler temperatures here along the coast I’ve been enjoying various oolong. Most mornings HY Chen’s fleet of roasted DongDing, or HT Chen’s (Tillerman’s laoshi) roasted DD and a roasted Lishan DongDing he made. It took maybe a month for HT Chen’s oolong to really open up here, and as in the past I find his slightly lower roast oolong steeps better in my modern zhuni or Taisuke Shiraiwa shudei kyusu. I also use a few hongni pots but those are smaller so I reserve them for afternoon and evening sessions. Hokujo stoneware kyusu, which I always pair with HY Chen’s roasted DD, seems to take away subtleties in HT Chen’s oolong. Another difference between these two expert roasters is that I continue to get shape/taste shifting occurring with HT Chen’s oolong, curiously each week his oolong express slightly different aspects, while HY Chen’s are pretty consistent. I’m not sure why this happens since they are both roasted DD. It is curious.
User avatar
LeoFox
Posts: 1777
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:01 pm
Location: Washington DC

Fri Feb 12, 2021 6:37 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:17 pm
Had a session of winter dyl from a similar source as Ethan Kurland's courtesy of Bok.

All I can say is that this winter dyl in a Gaiwan tastes like the spring dyl in kobiwako!

Leaves are bigger, and more yellow. There is less minty aroma but more umami, oily texture, and savory herbal notes like rosemary and tarragon

Edit: there is a savory aftertaste of the herbs and a slight green pepperiness that lasted for hours through the late afternoon and even in the morning when I woke up! This is a powerful tea even if the harvest is a bit poor! Very grateful to Bok!
Image
Image
My mind was quite blown to discover that the spring harvest would taste like the winter harvest if the spring harvest is brewed in kobiwako.

So I formed the following hypothesis:
Since carbonized reduction mumyoi (crm) seems to have the opposite effect of kobiwako for sencha, then perhaps winter dyl brewed in crm would taste like spring dyl.

Well I was soooo wrong. When brewed in crm, the tea did not erupt in aromatics. Instead, what was the complex flavor structure of savory tastes in the gaiwan became completely eroded (not erased) into a simple saltiness. Perhaps the aroma increased very marginally, but the overall aromatic landscape was flat.

This was an interesting learning experience: the crm didnt enhance aromas, but simplified the savory flavors, which would typically allow any background aromatics to shine. Since there weren't many aromatics in this winter harvest to begin with, the tea became flat.

The benefit was that the tea lasted many countless infusions, and there was a slight cucumber freshness in the mouth.

I am now wondering if I should repeat this with the spring dyl, but it could mean flattening the spring dyl as well, which would be such a shame, as I only have enough for one more session..
Attachments
20210212_183627.jpg
20210212_183627.jpg (419.6 KiB) Viewed 3917 times
20210212_183723.jpg
20210212_183723.jpg (394.24 KiB) Viewed 3917 times
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:24 am

Recent posts by LeoFox & Victoria were a pleasure to read. Thank you both.

Sometimes reading about tea and teaware has no chance of effecting me in which teas & teaware I will buy & use yet still provide me with useful information & ideas.

I am sure that the palates of Leo & Victoria are more sensitive than my palate is; moreover, they write better than I do.

What can I offer? I advise "Know thyself," as Socrates said. E.g.: 1. I can't make ideal use of a cupboard full of many teas & pots. If I had a range of teapots as wide as LeoFox has, most of my experimenting with them would lead to disappointing sessions. My guesstimations of the effect of pots would be wrong too often. For some people life is too short for lots of bad tea sessions; so, those of us who find many options for preparation more than he (I use "he" the old way, for women too, I am old)--more than he can handle like a cook with weak hands holding an overly large & heavy knife, we should own what teaware we can use well. 2. Greatest enjoyment of tea does not require having a great amount of teas for some of us. What Victoria referred to as shape-shifting changes in the drinking of the same tea from week to another, & many variations in what a tea gives or how we perceive its flavors are only fully noticed & enjoyed by some drinkers, when those teas are drunk over & over with a limited amount of other teas in his daily routine. (I have tea sessions using 3 teas daily, sometimes using those teas a second time that day; 1 other tea is drunk 2 - 3 X per weeks.)

Anyway, thanks for the posts. Enjoy the ways you find work for you.
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:52 pm

@Ethan Kurland you’re making some savvy points. I agree sometimes less is more. To revisit one or two teas over and over again reveals subtle nuances in each over time. My rotation in the morning is pretty consistent seasonally between one or two teas whether it’s oolong or sencha, 10-12g each steeped in a teapot that I’ve concluded pairs well. So both tea and teaware become well acquainted :). Afternoons and evenings I’ll switch to a wider range of teas, smaller quantities, and get more creative with pairing teaware to tea. This way almost all of the many teapots I collect eventually are used and enjoyed 🍃.
faj
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:14 pm

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:24 am
Greatest enjoyment of tea does not require having a great amount of teas for some of us.
If one concentrates on teas one really appreciates, less variety should mean greater enjoyment. I expect (hope) that as I become more experienced, I will purchase fewer different teas, try fewer new teas, and reduce the number of disappointing teas or sessions I end up having. If that does not happen, it seems to me either I like everything equally, I just don't care, or I do not learn from experience, all of which seem like unfortunate outcomes.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:38 am

Baozhong in Duanni. Exuberant, curly leaves crammed into a tiny space. Boiling water. Thick, fragrant loveliness.

Never take the conventional perceived wisdom as such. Go your own way, follow your own taste buds.
Attachments
3FA2E2E4-1869-426E-A366-6DD9EF99FFA7.jpeg
3FA2E2E4-1869-426E-A366-6DD9EF99FFA7.jpeg (198.87 KiB) Viewed 3802 times
DBACDF74-C6B2-4775-958D-26D52EB7E84F.jpeg
DBACDF74-C6B2-4775-958D-26D52EB7E84F.jpeg (171.23 KiB) Viewed 3802 times
B4AB7D66-CF1E-42C2-B812-37A76F1EF457.jpeg
B4AB7D66-CF1E-42C2-B812-37A76F1EF457.jpeg (179.36 KiB) Viewed 3802 times
User avatar
belewfripp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:10 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:19 pm

Bok wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:08 am
chofmann wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:19 am
If you're really nice to him, he might sell you a bit of his 30-year aged Dongding... I liked it more than the one at Wistaria, but that is just my opinion.
I wasn’t impressed by the aged Dongding at Wistaris, actually rather disappointing...
I was going to post about the aged Dong Ding from Wistaria, which I drank (maybe) yesterday and today, and on searching I see it's come up in the past. I recently got an order from Wistaria including the "Over 30-years-aged Dong Ding" and this is my first significantly aged oolong so I'm unsure whether I'm just an idiot or if maybe they accidentally sent me the wrong tea. I did order it in early February, and did not for the life of me expect to get it as soon as yesterday given Chinese New Year holidays, so maybe something got mixed up? If some of you have had it before (and weren't impressed) then maybe you can confirm or deny my observations.

The little sleeve/label around the sealed double-bag does say (in Chinese) "old Dongding oolong" and that this is "Wisteria's private selection tea". However, the tea inside does not look like the image of the tea on their website. My understanding, both from drinking younger oolongs and from researching aged ones, is that old oolong is not as tightly-rolled as newer oolong tea. What this does look like is a new Dongding that was at least medium roasted (you can't see any green except in the spent leaves), or some kind of newer roasted oolong. As far as I can see they don't sell a younger Dongding online, but their tea menu for onsite patrons does list it. The aroma of the dry leaves is somewhat roasty/dark spices - similar to medium roast tieguanyin I've had.

The taste was sweet in the later infusions, somewhat roasty/charcoal w/a little sourness and astringency in early steeps - some cooling, some aftertaste but nothing special. Keeping in mind that this would be my first real aged oolong (i.e. I could just have flubbed the brewing), it didn't taste like the descriptions others have given of aged Dongdings. But then, several of you were not impressed with Wistaria's so maybe that doesn't mean anything? I used water just off the boil, 8g in a 100ml porcelain gaiwan (pre-heated). Leaves opened easily and were unrolling extensively 4 steeps in. The spent leaves had a significant amount of olive green on them. I would have expected the leaves to be pretty dark.

I don't have any reason to believe that if it is the wrong tea it's anything but an accident - the other teas I got (both puer) are as expected. The tea (150g) was shrink bagged/double-bagged - I wonder if maybe some bags got fit with the wrong sleeve/label thing? I don't know what their process is for pre-labeling and storing their oolong. It doesn't seem like it's the right tea, but I also don't want to be the ignorant noob complaining about nothing. So I'm soliciting other folks' opinions. Images of the dry and used (but not fully-spent) leaves are below - I applied a filter to make the second photo more drab as the unaltered photo was actually presenting the leaves as a little greener than they really are.

Any and all help is much appreciated.

Image

Image
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:06 pm

belewfripp wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:19 pm
is that old oolong is not as tightly-rolled as newer oolong tea. What this does look like is a new Dongding that was at least medium roasted (you can't see any green except in the spent leaves), or some kind of newer roasted oolong. As far as I can see they don't sell a younger Dongding online, but their tea menu for onsite patrons does list it. The aroma of the dry leaves is somewhat roasty/dark spices - similar to medium roast tieguanyin I've had.

The taste was sweet in the later infusions, somewhat roasty/charcoal w/a little sourness and astringency in early steeps - some cooling, some aftertaste but nothing special. Keeping in mind that this would be my first real aged oolong (i.e. I could just have flubbed the brewing), it didn't taste like the descriptions others have given of aged Dongdings.
Sounds and looks pretty much like what I would expect from a typical aged Taiwanese oolong. Bare in mind that most are quite boring – in the overwhelming majority! To find a good aged Taiwan oolong is a bit like a lottery, no matter how old it is. That is the problem with them, you always pay too much, simply for the age, but the taste is mostly not on par with the pricing.
belewfripp wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:19 pm
The spent leaves had a significant amount of olive green on them. I would have expected the leaves to be pretty dark.
Well processed and roasted Oolong should always still show some green in the spent leaves. Only low quality roasted Oolong, typically HK style oolongs as from Fukien Tea Company for example are almost black, roasted to death.
User avatar
belewfripp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:10 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:14 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:06 pm
Sounds and looks pretty much like what I would expect from a typical aged Taiwanese oolong. Bare in mind that most are quite boring – in the overwhelming majority! To find a good aged Taiwan oolong is a bit like a lottery, no matter how old it is. That is the problem with them, you always pay too much, simply for the age, but the taste is mostly not on par with the pricing.

Well processed and roasted Oolong should always still show some green in the spent leaves. Only low quality roasted Oolong, typically HK style oolongs as from Fukien Tea Company for example are almost black, roasted to death.
Thanks - I'd rather it be underwhelming, I think, than it be the incorrect tea. At least this way I'm learning something. And I'll keep playing with it, too. Maybe if I jam a ton of leaf in and do flash steeps (or maybe grandpa it, to go the opposite direction) I can get something different from it.

Thanks again for the help.
User avatar
Bok
Vendor
Posts: 5782
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:55 am
Location: Taiwan

Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 am

belewfripp wrote:
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:14 pm

Thanks - I'd rather it be underwhelming, I think, than it be the incorrect tea. At least this way I'm learning something. And I'll keep playing with it, too. Maybe if I jam a ton of leaf in and do flash steeps (or maybe grandpa it, to go the opposite direction) I can get something different from it.

Thanks again for the help.
You are welcome. Usually, with Taiwan aged teas, what is crucial is very hot water each steep. And often actually a little less leaf, but longer steeps. But of course, it always depends on the individual tea. I also use certain Zini or Wuni(reduction fired) clays to filter out some of the storage faults.

I've been consistently disappointed with Wistaria's aged teas. I remember one aged Tieguanyin as being half-way interesting with some cherry notes, but generally most were pretty bland.
Ethan Kurland
Vendor
Posts: 1026
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 am
Location: Boston
Contact:

Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:24 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 am
.... And often actually a little less leaf, but longer steeps. But of course, it always depends on the individual tea. I also use certain Zini or Wuni(reduction fired) clays to filter out some of the storage faults.
+1 to less leaf (thankfully since aged = expensive)
I've written about my personal situation which is that I need to pause as I drink roasted teas (which many aged teas are). If I drink 30 ml, then another 30 ml quickly, the taste of roast gets so strong I don't pick up other flavors.
User avatar
belewfripp
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:10 am
Location: Pennsylvania

Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:16 am

Bok wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:52 am

You are welcome. Usually, with Taiwan aged teas, what is crucial is very hot water each steep. And often actually a little less leaf, but longer steeps. But of course, it always depends on the individual tea. I also use certain Zini or Wuni(reduction fired) clays to filter out some of the storage faults.

I've been consistently disappointed with Wistaria's aged teas. I remember one aged Tieguanyin as being half-way interesting with some cherry notes, but generally most were pretty bland.
I'm happy with the two semi-aged (early 2000's) puer I got from them, but this aged Dongding has been more of a puzzle. This morning I've been playing with the water (3 cheers for working from home) and getting some better results. I reduced the leaf somewhat (1g to 20 ml) and will try your suggestion of very hot water and alter the steep times.
Ethan Kurland wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:24 am
+1 to less leaf (thankfully since aged = expensive)
I've written about my personal situation which is that I need to pause as I drink roasted teas (which many aged teas are). If I drink 30 ml, then another 30 ml quickly, the taste of roast gets so strong I don't pick up other flavors.
Thanks. Fortunately, during the week work concerns (even from home) do prevent me from drinking too much too quickly. There has been one consistent positive with this tea as I've messed with it, and that's it has pretty good cha qi.
User avatar
LeoFox
Posts: 1777
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:01 pm
Location: Washington DC

Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:52 pm

A session with "xiao Hong pao" from OWT to season my hqsn.

Vendor description:
The roast is robust with some cocoa character. It has a mouthwatering intensity. The tea was processed April 27th 2020, and roast at the end of July.
I have to say, this is one of the worst yancha I've ever had - made me wish the pot was more rounding! :o

True to the vendor description, the tea has a strong cocoa character. In fact, the first two infusions were fantastic with chocolate.

However, that's all there is to this tea: chocolate and coffee flavors (basically the roast). First infusion was slightly plummy. Third and fourth infusions had a hint of dried fruit. Died after 4th infusion ( I was doing 8 grams in 110 mL). Left a lingering aftertaste of cigarette butts.

I'd say I'm getting what I am paying for at about $0.26/ gram. (Further proof that there is no cheap yancha)

To be fair, this is what I was looking for to educate my porous pot.
Attachments
IMG-20210218-WA0020.jpeg
IMG-20210218-WA0020.jpeg (115.49 KiB) Viewed 3635 times
IMG-20210218-WA0016.jpeg
IMG-20210218-WA0016.jpeg (108.39 KiB) Viewed 3635 times
User avatar
Victoria
Admin
Posts: 3043
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:33 pm
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Contact:

Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:04 am

I was going to say you get what you pay for with yancha @LeoFox. Taiwan oolong is much more generous at that price point. This thread is getting depressing between Wistaria aged oolong comments and now OWT :shock: - On an up note you can use that yancha to season your new yixing.

I had a great session with HY Chen’s medium roast 100 year garden earlier today. It’s so rich, complex, and aromatic, it’s da bomb. Later, I dipped into two aged oolong from Taiwan that are both AAA grade top shelf, sourced via a respected tea buddy; an ‘87 Taiwan Tie Guanyin (TGY) for export to Japan, and an ‘80s Wisteria DongDing that was back-room stuff. Over the top excellence. They both needed a few week to breath a little and get their tea legs since they had been “in teabag jail” for so long. I’ll post about them another time as they both really deserve some focus 🌞🍃
Post Reply