Lets talk about Da Yu Ling

Semi-oxidized tea
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LeoFox
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Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:03 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:06 am
Apparently, some also now sell the best DYL directly(and for cheap), skipping the local retailers when the local market demand for authentic DYL already exceeds the available amount... funny world
Who???
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harrison1986
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Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:46 pm

Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:06 am
Apparently, some also now sell the best DYL directly(and for cheap), skipping the local retailers when the local market demand for authentic DYL already exceeds the available amount... funny world
Cheap DYL? Please tell me who. I thought the order I just placed was for fake DYL, but now I am thinking maybe I ordered the real thing?
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LeoFox
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Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:12 pm

harrison1986 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:46 pm
Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:06 am
Apparently, some also now sell the best DYL directly(and for cheap), skipping the local retailers when the local market demand for authentic DYL already exceeds the available amount... funny world
Cheap DYL? Please tell me who. I thought the order I just placed was for fake DYL, but now I am thinking maybe I ordered the real thing?
There is some sarcasm here
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Bok
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Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:48 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:12 pm
harrison1986 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:46 pm
Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:06 am
Apparently, some also now sell the best DYL directly(and for cheap), skipping the local retailers when the local market demand for authentic DYL already exceeds the available amount... funny world
Cheap DYL? Please tell me who. I thought the order I just placed was for fake DYL, but now I am thinking maybe I ordered the real thing?
There is some sarcasm here
Nooooo... I would never do that :lol:
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harrison1986
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Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:57 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:12 pm
harrison1986 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:46 pm
Bok wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:06 am
Apparently, some also now sell the best DYL directly(and for cheap), skipping the local retailers when the local market demand for authentic DYL already exceeds the available amount... funny world
Cheap DYL? Please tell me who. I thought the order I just placed was for fake DYL, but now I am thinking maybe I ordered the real thing?
There is some sarcasm here
Lol, okay when you asked "who?" It made me think lol.
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Bok
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Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:11 am

The attentive reader will also easily find out the sarcasm’s target.
Ethan Kurland
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Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:43 pm

Life is really confusing. I see that consumers can pre-order dayuling for this upcoming season, a season that I imagine would not have its highest tea leaves picked for at least several weeks. Yet, the harvest of the pre-ordered DYL (100k = very high altitude) is scheduled a couple of weeks from now & delivery of tea from that harvest less than 2 weeks after that.

I see 2 different companies giving very similar details about DYL generally & theirs specifically: e.g., 100k area being about 2500m high yielding only 50 - 75 kg of tea for the Winter season (sometimes called Fall), etc. Yet, one company sells 100k/2500m DYL for about a third of the cost of the other's "newer", "fresher" tea that is coming on a schedule. Perhaps no one will have new DYL as typhoons will ruin every leaf except those picked in a couple of weeks! Then those who absolutely must have a Winter DYL might feel quite foolish for not pre-ordering. Can we survive w/o it; &, if we do, can we forgive ourselves? as we live w/o a Winter DYL for a year?

I see that I already have reasons to feel that I am a fool. I sometimes have written Mt. Li or Mt. Ali; yet, I see others referring to areas, not mountains. Moreover, "Alishan", "Lishan", or "Shanlinxi" might not only be used for areas but be used to refer to specific altitudes. (There is even a pretty chart to show us.) I've referred to 3 teas as Shanlinxi, & some were above or below the altitude tied to the name. Hopefully, even those w/o a chart & w/ a simple understanding of nomenclature can get good tea. Or, we might be happy drinking tea that is < the best, like the Fool of Tarot cards happy in his ignorance.

Anyway, this is a relaxed posting at a relaxed time, as I see it. Most of us have a supply of teas from the Spring that overall are far from exhausted; &, concern for how Winter tea will be in quality & quantity should not be bothering us. It is a great time to enjoy tea & to ponder how we might experiment w/ our preparation skills, hopefully improving them. Also to keep focused on how we drink: swishing in the mouth, inhaling, sucking cheeks in, smelling wet leaves & lids, etc.

All the best.
Last edited by Ethan Kurland on Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bok
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Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:59 am

Always enjoyable to read your musings, @Ethan Kurland.

I find preorder teas also problematic, as you won’t even know how good/bad the harvest is going to turn out. One might pay a lot for substandard tea. And just being DYL by itself is not enough of a guarantee to be good tea.
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Benjamin
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:06 am

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:43 pm
I see that consumers can pre-order dayuling for this upcoming season, a season that I imagine would not have its highest tea leaves picked for at least several weeks.

Curious, why would you say this? Winter teas are harvested from the top down in terms of altitude (the opposite of spring) and generally they are available for tasting by mid/end of October. The harvest is weather dependent and not totally like clockwork each year, but it's usually always some time in October.

a quick source mentioning the same: (in Chinese)

https://www.sumusen.com.tw/article.php ... 6%E3%80%82
Ethan Kurland
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:43 am

Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:06 am

Curious, why would you say this? Winter teas are harvested from the top down in terms of altitude (the opposite of spring) and generally they are available for tasting by mid/end of October. The harvest is weather dependent and not totally like clockwork each year, but it's usually always some time in October.
Benjamin, I am not w/o ignorance and/or confusion. Winter harvests from the top down, always? Not how I thought... How I come to write it. Mostly as a consumer & vendor I care about the flavor, quality, & value for $ of teas, not cultivars, terroir, etc. Nonetheless, over time I've paid attention to talk about altitude, weather, etc. Just now when such talk is connected to marketing that is manipulative to extremes. This may get me into the why area of an answer to your ?, something that is difficult to understand.

Perhaps I get irked. If I see a tea that has not been harvested, processed, & tested being sold at a price 3 x that of top quality teas of the same type of established goodness, I will write.

What is a normal harvest time? Who knows anymore. I feel that most of the harvests were quite late over the last few years. I also feel that sometimes that lots of gaoshan is beyond assessment for at least a few weeks after it has been processed.

I also feel that I have benefitted from getting teas late. Perhaps I have been lucky. I am going to rely on that luck. I am actually not going to sell any tea for December & January, & not buy any Winter tea to drink myself or test until late January. I am going to stop reading about weather, harvests, etc. & just sample what is then available & good according to sources that I respect.
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Benjamin
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:18 am

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:43 am
Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:06 am

Curious, why would you say this? Winter teas are harvested from the top down in terms of altitude (the opposite of spring) and generally they are available for tasting by mid/end of October. The harvest is weather dependent and not totally like clockwork each year, but it's usually always some time in October.
Benjamin, I am not w/o ignorance and/or confusion. Winter harvests from the top down, always? Not how I thought... How I come to write it. Mostly as a consumer & vendor I care about the flavor, quality, & value for $ of teas, not cultivars, terroir, etc. Nonetheless, over time I've paid attention to talk about altitude, weather, etc. Just now when such talk is connected to marketing that is manipulative to extremes. This may get me into the why area of an answer to your ?, something that is difficult to understand.

Perhaps I get irked. If I see a tea that has not been harvested, processed, & tested being sold at a price 3 x that of top quality teas of the same type of established goodness, I will write.

What is a normal harvest time? Who knows anymore. I feel that most of the harvests were quite late over the last few years. I also feel that sometimes that lots of gaoshan is beyond assessment for at least a few weeks after it has been processed.

I also feel that I have benefitted from getting teas late. Perhaps I have been lucky. I am going to rely on that luck. I am actually not going to sell any tea for December & January, & not buy any Winter tea to drink myself or test until late January. I am going to stop reading about weather, harvests, etc. & just sample what is then available & good according to sources that I respect.
I have been told from most every vendor here that Winter teas are top down and Spring bottom up, so I am quite certain that this is the procedure, but you're of course right that the timing for the actual harvest is very weather dependent. Though seeing as the harvest is already underway, one can at least be certain for winter teas that the higher regions are available for tasting if one is lucky enough to have access to them. A quick search in Chinese on Youtube (when sorted by upload date) shows plenty of Dayuling tasting sessions having occurred in the past few days.

For spring tea, I wholly agree on being patient and waiting to see what comes near the end of the harvest at the higher regions. To an extent I feel this way about winter teas as well when Dongpian is taken into consideration, which may actually be the culprit behind some of the confusion. As Dongpian isn't likely to be on the scene until late December or January, that may lead some to think that the best winter tea comes later - despite Dongpian really being a separate harvest in and of itself.

Agreed that at the end of the day, all that matters is if you like the tea in front of you. :)
Ethan Kurland
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:41 pm

Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:18 am
I have been told from most every vendor here that Winter teas are top down and Spring bottom up, so I am quite certain that this is the procedure, ... shows plenty of Dayuling tasting sessions having occurred in the past few days.

For spring tea, I wholly agree on being patient and waiting to see what comes near the end of the harvest at the higher regions. To an extent I feel this way about winter teas as well when Dongpian is taken into consideration, which may actually be the culprit behind some of the confusion. As Dongpian isn't likely to be on the scene until late December or January, that may lead some to think that the best winter tea comes later - despite Dongpian really being a separate harvest in and of itself.

Agreed that at the end of the day, all that matters is if you like the tea in front of you. :)
Thanks, Benjamin. You have me exercising my old brain.

I did not buy any goashan last Winter until February, & then only Longfengxia. Honestly, for all that I know that LFX could be called Dongpian. My source had not used the term. I would not blame him for keeping things simple w/ me.

As for what you wrote about being patient. For those not living in Taiwan, I'll add that it is nice if one can pair patience w/ trust & have that trust rewarded. For gaoshan I trust a source to find gaoshan that I like & put some aside for me if I don't arrange an order as soon as such gaoshan is available. (I don't want to be expecting packages from overseas around Christmas.)

This thread is about DYL & not me; so, I'll just add that not every season provides DYL that will suit our individual expectations. Other gaoshan of that season may suit one quite well; or DYL, from a past season that one liked might be available still.
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Benjamin
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 pm

Ethan Kurland wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:41 pm
Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:18 am
I have been told from most every vendor here that Winter teas are top down and Spring bottom up, so I am quite certain that this is the procedure, ... shows plenty of Dayuling tasting sessions having occurred in the past few days.

For spring tea, I wholly agree on being patient and waiting to see what comes near the end of the harvest at the higher regions. To an extent I feel this way about winter teas as well when Dongpian is taken into consideration, which may actually be the culprit behind some of the confusion. As Dongpian isn't likely to be on the scene until late December or January, that may lead some to think that the best winter tea comes later - despite Dongpian really being a separate harvest in and of itself.

Agreed that at the end of the day, all that matters is if you like the tea in front of you. :)
Thanks, Benjamin. You have me exercising my old brain.

I did not buy any goashan last Winter until February, & then only Longfengxia. Honestly, for all that I know that LFX could be called Dongpian. My source had not used the term. I would not blame him for keeping things simple w/ me.

As for what you wrote about being patient. For those not living in Taiwan, I'll add that it is nice if one can pair patience w/ trust & have that trust rewarded. For gaoshan I trust a source to find gaoshan that I like & put some aside for me if I don't arrange an order as soon as such gaoshan is available. (I don't want to be expecting packages from overseas around Christmas.)

This thread is about DYL & not me; so, I'll just add that not every season provides DYL that will suit our individual expectations. Other gaoshan of that season may suit one quite well; or DYL, from a past season that one liked might be available still.
Trust really hits the nail on the head, even for us here on the island. It's those relationships with farmers and vendors that really do the heavy lifting, all the moreso with Dayuling or other tea areas with small yields. The winter yield is typically smaller than spring (and unsurprisingly is often reflected in the price), so I personally think Lishan or even good Shanlinxi is a much better deal than DYL in terms of cost:performance.
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Bok
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Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:51 pm

Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 pm
Lishan or even good Shanlinxi is a much better deal than DYL in terms of cost:performance.
Often mentioned already, but still worth emphasising.
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Tillerman
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Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:12 pm

Bok wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:51 pm
Benjamin wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:53 pm
Lishan or even good Shanlinxi is a much better deal than DYL in terms of cost:performance.
Often mentioned already, but still worth emphasising.
We also should bear in mind the the "best" DYL from gardens above 2500m, no linger exist. Modern DYL has no elevation advantage over the highest grown Lishan (and many of us argue that DYL never should have been marketed as anything but Lishan in the first place). Yet, fake DYL at usurious prices (OK, it's a sale, not a loan but I couldn't think of a better word) is all over the place. As has been said so often in these dialogues, buy on your palate, not on the basis of the name. And a good SLX will always be a better deal than a DYL.
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