What HeiCha are you drinking

Puerh and other heicha
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tealifehk
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Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:32 am

I've actually had no issues sending to Germany: the one issue I had was when I printed a label for someone's old address, and the package took a long time to come back to HK. Entirely my mistake. Germany has been one of the least problematic destinations of all for me!
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Maerskian
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Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:17 am

tealifehk wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:32 am
I've actually had no issues sending to Germany: the one issue I had was when I printed a label for someone's old address, and the package took a long time to come back to HK. Entirely my mistake. Germany has been one of the least problematic destinations of all for me!
Failed to mention that on your particular case had in mind those opened cakes with missing chunks you mentioned. That's still a big issue on my book... at the very least they could send their notes & thoughts on the tea.

Other than that: when was the last time any of your german buyers received an order ? , asking because it's been only since early this summer that all customs agents within the EU seem to be behaving differently and testing more aggressively than ever, not to mention now they seem to be banning teas with "anything else" ( not sure how some vendors still managed to slip some fucha bricks though )
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tealifehk
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Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:30 am

Maerskian wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:17 am
tealifehk wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:32 am
I've actually had no issues sending to Germany: the one issue I had was when I printed a label for someone's old address, and the package took a long time to come back to HK. Entirely my mistake. Germany has been one of the least problematic destinations of all for me!
Failed to mention that on your particular case had in mind those opened cakes with missing chunks you mentioned. That's still a big issue on my book... at the very least they could send their notes & thoughts on the tea.

Other than that: when was the last time any of your german buyers received an order ? , asking because it's been only since early this summer that all customs agents within the EU seem to be behaving differently and testing more aggressively than ever, not to mention now they seem to be banning teas with "anything else" ( not sure how some vendors still managed to slip some fucha bricks though )
No package I've sent to Germany has ever been opened, so I think you've got me confused with someone else maybe?

Some tea packages (from PRC I believe) do end up going in for testing, but that (fortunately) has never happened to any of my packages.

The last package I sent to Germany was on the 7th of November. It arrived at the recipient's door on the 12th of November! Very quick and no issues for a 1kg box.
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wave_code
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Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:45 pm

Since this summer I've gotten packages of tea from HK, Gungdong, USA, no problems with any of them. I've got two more that will get here when they get here from HK and also from Malaysia once post there resumes. I did find that one tea I ordered no longer is offered to be shipped here by the seller, which if it isn't allowed I can't blame them for not wanting to risk orders getting lost or returned. The only time I even had to go and pay tax was because it was a larger order, so one I should have had to pay for anyway, but it was more that it seemed they made some mistake and either cleared it and didn't mark it as cleared or something like that so the local office was kind of confused and it resulted in me paying. it was an unpleasant experience more because of who works in that office but technically it was no biggie. I know YS had stopped shipping to Germany for a bit, but I noticed its back on the country list so maybe whatever issue they were having was resolved? Maybe its an excuse for me to make a test order... I know these things can change over time but prior to moving here I also ordered from various places to Austria with zero issues and in Norway prior to that.

I tried looking up specifics about what is allowed and what is not in terms of flowers/scented teas, so on, but its a lot of paperwork and stuff I'm not used to navigating. I don't know the specific reason various things aren't allowed- maybe because some tend to be highly treated with pesticides, but I would guess more that its things fall under some blanket rule where if that plant isn't allowed to be shipped here then teas with its buds aren't allowed either since even though its in a tea technically it still is the reproductive organ of what might be considered a potential invasive species or something along those lines. I do understand that legally they can open packages and test things and so on, and again I don't know and haven't found specific paperwork on under what circumstances this applies specifically or generally... maybe I'm naive but I highly doubt the post is doing that except extremely rarely. even if they can charge you for it the work/bureaucracy behind doing such a thing is probably rather involved and probably still nets a loss for the post/port or whatever other administration is involved. I would guess the main target and reason for such rules is primarily dealing with commercial imports - which for small specialty vendors I get its a pain and it sucks, but with the amount of sketchy things liked canned food products that get sold and imported into Europe I do think its a good idea in principle at least that someone is spot-checking canned vegetables or fish do not contain heavy metals or ecoli. its unfortunate it isn't possible to lab-test for whether something is grown using fair labor or not.
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Maerskian
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Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:10 am

tealifehk wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:30 am
No package I've sent to Germany has ever been opened, so I think you've got me confused with someone else maybe?
I stand corrected then, sorry for the confusion.

I know that conversation was on Discord's CommuniTEA and it was a vendor that mentioned that particular incidence so with you being the one vendor i always remember there ( i'm not around that often ) guess i made a mental connection with you.

Now i think about it... hope i didn't misquote you ( this was recently on reddit ) on a 2008 Xinghai cake tasting like "horse shit" which you & Kupuntu seemed to agree >__>
The last package I sent to Germany was on the 7th of November. It arrived at the recipient's door on the 12th of November! Very quick and no issues for a 1kg box.
Genuinely glad that's working well for you & your customers, although can confirm the numbers i have from my own experience & other international sellers ( context: i'm part of a private forum where international sellers share their experiences; not going any further than that ) point to an objective & obvious growth in the number of issues at customs, the kind we didn't have before .

Also remember ( this time was a direct exchange between you & me on Discord ) you had no trouble with your orders shipped to Barcelona, etc... however since then ( i think that conversation happened either on late 2019/early 2020 ) the situation on Spain only has gotten worse, no matter the size of value.

wave_code wrote: Since this summer I've gotten packages of tea from HK, Gungdong, USA, no problems with any of them. I've got two more that will get here when they get here from HK and also from Malaysia once post there resumes. I did find that one tea I ordered no longer is offered to be shipped here by the seller, which if it isn't allowed I can't blame them for not wanting to risk orders getting lost or returned. The only time I even had to go and pay tax was because it was a larger order, so one I should have had to pay for anyway, but it was more that it seemed they made some mistake and either cleared it and didn't mark it as cleared or something like that so the local office was kind of confused and it resulted in me paying. it was an unpleasant experience more because of who works in that office but technically it was no biggie.
Considering the amount of complaints from german buyers and comparing with my own experience and sellers from the private international sellers forum i belong to... i've also noticed there's a lot of discrepancies inside each country.

Sticking to Germany: half my family tree is spreaded over the Nordrhein-Westfalen region which is directly dependent on the infamous Frankfurt sorting office that since few years ago has changed things internally with horrible results... although just recently seems to have been fixed. Some regions just seem to experience more problems than others, whether it is anything customs-related or delivery speeds... or simple facts like not receiving any notice if they aren't home.

This year, as particular as it is, also is making such differences even more obvious. Some sellers i know had abnormal delays ( 1month+ ) on their domestic deliveries within France... while others ( located on Belgium ) had no issues trading with France ( although when i inquired a little bit... it was mostly northern-France locations ) .

Right now shipping to the Netherlands through regular post is becoming a bit of a nightmare with barely or no tracking updates on the dutch side and over 4-6 weeks delivery within EU.

I'd like to think my issues were directly related to my particular region... but all international orders are stopped/Checked at Madrid before being cleared & sent to a sorting office... so it just looks like they just increased the pressure.

I started searching for causes for this effect last year and that's when i found president Trump paid $30 million to the postal union on september 2019 demanding - precisely - more pressure ... and the timeline fitted perfectly related to the rise of complaints i've started noticing since then, not just on my side or Germany's... but everywhere else within the EU too.

I know some people still get lucky and receive their small parcels like usual not needing to pay any additional taxes, but the chances of success nowadays are definitely lower.
I know YS had stopped shipping to Germany for a bit, but I noticed its back on the country list so maybe whatever issue they were having was resolved? Maybe its an excuse for me to make a test order... I know these things can change over time but prior to moving here I also ordered from various places to Austria with zero issues and in Norway prior to that.
Had this text around from Scott of YS that i quote as i saved it:
"[...] It's like gambling. I'm tired of it. I also hate how German Customs and DHL will always shift the blame to the sender even though they have it. The parcel in the picture above was in Customs for a month in Germany. The customer called German Customs and DHL and they told him it wasn't in their possession and to contact the sender. Then a few weeks later it gets sent back to China with this sticker on it. They had it the whole time and lied to the customer. The customer was of course furious with us. In the end we were able to show them that in fact they did have it and sent it back because it was dangerous Chinese tea."-Scott
I've had a similar experience with my (5) YS packages stopped here; Scott claimed he never got 'em back months & months after the fact... and i absolutely believe him based on they way customs agents tend to proceed over here ( constantly breaking the rules & not caring at all ) . I myself had to wait 5 hours ( five! ) on the phone until a customs agent finally graced me with his presence... only to give me a generic answer and not even bothering to check anything then hang.

That said... had no idea Scott is now willing to risk it again.
I tried looking up specifics about what is allowed and what is not in terms of flowers/scented teas, so on, but its a lot of paperwork and stuff I'm not used to navigating. I don't know the specific reason various things aren't allowed- maybe because some tend to be highly treated with pesticides, but I would guess more that its things fall under some blanket rule where if that plant isn't allowed to be shipped here then teas with its buds aren't allowed either since even though its in a tea technically it still is the reproductive organ of what might be considered a potential invasive species or something along those lines. I do understand that legally they can open packages and test things and so on, and again I don't know and haven't found specific paperwork on under what circumstances this applies specifically or generally... maybe I'm naive but I highly doubt the post is doing that except extremely rarely. even if they can charge you for it the work/bureaucracy behind doing such a thing is probably rather involved and probably still nets a loss for the post/port or whatever other administration is involved. I would guess the main target and reason for such rules is primarily dealing with commercial imports - which for small specialty vendors I get its a pain and it sucks, but with the amount of sketchy things liked canned food products that get sold and imported into Europe I do think its a good idea in principle at least that someone is spot-checking canned vegetables or fish do not contain heavy metals or ecoli. its unfortunate it isn't possible to lab-test for whether something is grown using fair labor or not.
A tea vendor from Czechia confirmed he isn't allowed to import tea with "anything else" anymore . The "anything else" is mine... specifically it's a long list and directly affected the liu an/ hei cha catalogue he planned to import now drastically reduced to a couple options. In theory tea with golden flowers, essential oils, chinese orchids, etc, etc, etc... are no longer allowed, this particular vendor used to import a particular taiwanese black tea that he can no longer bring, same for plenty heicha... the surprising part is that he still plan to bring some eco fucha bricks... although i guess that remains to be seen.

Another veteran ( 11 years ) tea seller reported abnormal paperwork , questions , testings & legal battles with DHL to clear up their latest batch of teas on late summer as well.

I myself also experienced issues with another one of my food-related interests: cacao beans . The newer EU laws also increased the pressure on cacao importers and lowered the max amounts of heavy metals found not to mention the insane amount of extra paperwork required; as a result, brands like Pacari haven't been able to sell their cacao within EU for a while... now they are back on the market with a worse product.

While lower heavy metal levels might sound like a reasonable thing ( even more with the reported high cadmium levels plenty cacao plantations soil around south america ) looks like those tests are way too strict and - same as what's happening with plenty teas - more related to a lack of culture about the product itself.

Thanks to this, it isn't legally allowed to bring mexican cacao beans into EU territory... one of the great quality sources for cacao beans ( fun fact: everybody claims to have "the best cacao in the world", this is boring the more you get into the cacao realm ) ... top US chefs only use this kind and even fly to Mexico to source the beans themselves ( imagine the bill for those dishes ) ... of course available to the US market...but they aren't allowed within the EU... it's "der prozeß" again & again & again
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Balthazar
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Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:40 am

2014 Baishaxi "first grade" fucha - Picked a brick of this a while back from BSX's official TMall store. BSX teas can be rather smoky, and this one was probably no exception in it's youth. It's mellowed down really nice in six years though, and now has just the right level of smokiness for my taste. Other than that there's plenty maltiness and a hint of caramel. The smell lingering in the empty cup is absolutely brilliant. Nice body too, average stamina for fuchas in this price range (around 6-8 decent steeps).

Seems to be on a permanent "sale" for RMB 265 per 318g brick, easily worth the price. Will consider stocking up on this one.
polezaivsani
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Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:36 am

Dug out a couple samples from the bottom of my tea box. First one - 2005 Zhongcha Sea Dyke liu an. Rather stiff leaves and interesting cherry onset in the cup, which alas dwindles over succeeding steeps. The base though was reminiscent of a liu bao with a slightly bitter ink and nuts. Wet piling aromas still noticeable. Doesn't get into my hall of liu an fame.

The other bag having read 2005 Zhongcha Duoteli 3rd grade liu bao didn't seemed promising, but turned out to be a fine tea alright. Very big leaves for a LB, suppose not the youngest ones, still gave a solid soup with beetroot, wood, a tad earthy, a pinch young nut bitterness and a nice afterglow looking up to vanilla scent. Seems like it's easier to come upon nice LB rather than an interesting LA.

Should i get to try the real bettel nut some day, would say that it tastes like liu bao. And go for the latter one in the end :).
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wave_code
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Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:02 am

@polezaivsani I also had a sample from that Sea Dyke basket and recall wanting to like it a lot more than I actually did. it wasn't bad, but didn't feel so strongly about picking more up. then again, sometimes it takes more than one session which was all I had to figure out how I really feel about a tea. especially something like liu an where I feel it can be so variable, its like I need to figure out how each different basket/supplier's liu an wants to be brewed.

I tried a new one from Ying Kee today, stone orchid liu an. again while theres similarities its also so much its own tea. had the typical chocolate notes dry but a much more mixed looking leaf- a bit larger pieces of leaf and stem, also a lot of leaf that was super curled, almost rolled looking like oolong. no strong storage character despite being a HK tea, it stayed on the lighter side, only around 4 or 5 longer brews but was about what I was expecting. the leaf opened up to be rather large in the end (for something that tends to be a little more broken up from my experience) and it was very much on the oolong side of the flavor spectrum - a little fruity and dry but also medicinal notes, touch of roasting. I don't drink a lot of oolong but it made me think of shui xian. I got impatient and only let it rest for 4 or 5 days or so, but I don't expect any drastic changes from this tea, maybe some more subtle notes as it settles in. they seen to have a few grades of these 'orchid' liu an, no idea if its different grades of material, age, some combo of both. it was cheap enough that I might check the others out. more of an everyday drinker, but with good liu an being trickier to get a hold of and quite a bit more pricey I'll take it.
polezaivsani
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Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:59 am

@wave_code, was that one from Good Tea or Ying Kee tea house? Not sure if the latter do business online though.

About 5 (some time 1 or 2 more) good steeps is what i usually get, and i prefer to push really thick, with the last steeping taking as long as the teapot could hold heat. And that's about the only way i prepare LA. What's your range of options in brewing?

My liu an to do list still has two more items, in case some body might have some insights about them: Yee on Tea have a break of millenium Sun Yi Shun basket. Odd it is, but so far all aged LA i've had had been of either Malaysian or Taiwanese storage. But this one hinges on postal shipping resuming between HK and RU. And then there is 1990 basket at Yang Qing Hao, a bit pricier at 0.5USD/g which i guess would be a bit of an adventure to get hold of. Anybody knows if Emmet still does group buys?
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wave_code
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:57 am

@polezaivsani I got it from HK, from a specialty grocery site actually. I just ordered this one bag to try them out. most of what they have is everyday stuff- lychee tea, lower grade oolongs, so on. most of it is still in the dim-sum type range but they do also have pu including a few older ones. who is buying a jar of their favorite chili sauce or the cookies they miss from home and also decides to get a $450 pu cake I'm not sure... but its there. the liu an they have is def lower grade though, they're all around $6-10 for 75 or 150g. I can't remember, maybe goodtea had the same ones at the beginning and they sold out quickly because they are cheaper - the rest of what they've gotten I think is on the higher end and I've only seem it for sale from them. I only gotten the 2011 loose one from them, and I haven't tried it in a bit but it was definitely of higher quality. These 'orchid' grade ones have no indication about age or anything, just price scale I guess. its nice to have liu an at

I don't know if it is possible to ship from Canada to Russia at the moment, but have you tried any of the 90s baskets from thechineseteashop? I feel like I'm still very early on learning liu an, but it takes so long to develop that I think ones that stick out as my favorites seem to at least start off or have spent some time in humid storage, then moved somewhere more stable after to air out and keep aging. I still have to try the Länggass baskets - I'm guessing they are on the light storage side though?

one thing I really do find I miss with these loose ones though is the bamboo leaf, I really like the flavor it adds. maybe its possible to get it separate to add though if its a TCM thing. @tealifehk am I imagining it or did you have aged bamboo leaf on its own on offer at some point?
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Maerskian
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:39 am

wave_code wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:57 am
I can't remember, maybe goodtea had the same ones at the beginning and they sold out quickly because they are cheaper - the rest of what they've gotten I think is on the higher end and I've only seem it for sale from them. I only gotten the 2011 loose one from them, and I haven't tried it in a bit but it was definitely of higher quality. These 'orchid' grade ones have no indication about age or anything, just price scale I guess. its nice to have liu an at
Those Jade orchid , stone orchid, omei orchid and even silver needle Liu An are no longer - in theory - allowed into the EU . The moment i noticed about it cleaned up GoodTea's stock ( what remained of 'em: 750g, 300g, 3kg, 300g ) . Wanted to buy 5Kg of each Liu An type by GoodTea's owner confirmed that as much as he'd love to... he no longer could import 'em.

Indeed, all those "orchid" ones plus the silver needle doesn't have any year info anywhere. The Ching Yuen Cha i got in the end is from 2011 & the Jia cang from 2009; ordered 5Kg of each and they arrived on his latest shipment from HongKong and as expected it can be felt on the tea itself.
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wave_code
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:57 am

do you know what it is about the orchid ones that wouldn't meet EU regulation compared with the others?
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Maerskian
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:37 am

wave_code wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:57 am
do you know what it is about the orchid ones that wouldn't meet EU regulation compared with the others?
It all boils down to anything "extra" on your tea, from chinese orchids to golden flowers to essential oils ( this one affected GoodTea's taiwanese Shan Cha which he no longer can import, what's there it's what remains ) and i'm guessing it must affect teas with chrysanthemum & the likes ( ?! ) .

He managed to slip some fucha from his last shipment ( ordered 8 bricks ) , but since then GoodTea owner assured me he was working on expanding his hei cha catalogue even though this task became exponentially difficult due to these new - and unexpected ( he's been in business for 15 years+... ) - restrictions ... and also about to bring some new organic fucha bricks... this was around september 2020... didn't see any of it added... but i did see a couple new sheng cakes + one new white tea cake so i can only speculate he wasn't allowed to import any of those in the end.

TdC owners - which have been at it for 11+ years - also faced unexpected problems on his latest shipment from China on late summer, way more thorough inspections, way more paperwork & headaches... everything weird, sudden & unusual.
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wave_code
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:19 pm

huh, I didn't notice or detect any actual buds or flowers or oil aromas in this tea at all. I'll try and look specifically for it next time, but compared to say liu an where it has aglaia odorata buds specifically added I didn't see or notice anything. I had sort of assumed it was the tea grade, like how Chen Chun Lan apparently used to use the number of 'orchid's as their grading system. whether its ying kee or someone else if they insist something is added then I have to take them at their word, but at least in this one it was quite subtle then or I really have no idea what specific flavor notes to be looking for.
polezaivsani
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Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:13 pm

I'll ask Länggass about their liu an provenance, but it didn't seem to my inexperienced eye as having been through wet storage. Thought it looked and felt too green to my liking still. I've set my tipping point at dozen years.

Previous century baskets are quite pricey at Chinese tea shop (north of $1/g), think i'll try my luck with YQH ($0.5/g) first.
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