What HeiCha are you drinking

Puerh and other heicha
faj
Posts: 710
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Location: Quebec

Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:48 am

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:13 am
Personally, I can't do much more than 5g/100 ml heicha without being overwhelmed.
I would say 4-5g / 100ml is what I probably typically use for liu bao, but that is probably because that is the ratio I tend to gravitate to for most teas. I do not remember brewing parameters for liu bao being discussed much on the forum.

What do you mean by "overwhelmed"?
Cookie
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Location: Midwest, USA

Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:54 am

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:13 am
Cookie wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 7:47 am
2012 "Medicine Fragrance" shu liubao from three bears today. Did 6g of the tea and 1g of the tea seed shells in a 70ml pocket kyusu (ruyao).

My wife really likes making homemade playdough for our 4-year-old and this taste like that smells. Has a nice salinity, sort of a lightly cooked flour, but with a bitterness to it. I'm not a huge fan of the bitterness, but overall like this tea. Sturdy tea that is very easy to drink overall.

Am curious where you picked up your approach of brewing 1g/10 ml for liu bao. Did you start lighter and eventually ended up there or did someone tell you to brew it this way early in your journey? Personally, I can't do much more than 5g/100 ml heicha without being overwhelmed.
This is how it was recommended to me to try it. I am planning on trying it at a lower ratio after this. ~9g in a 200ml nixing pot. This one was comfy enough, a bit heavy and sleepy on the energy but the flavor was easy going enough for me. I got 15g of all the "Fragrance" labeled liu bao on 3bears so was planning on doing one high ratio, and one low ratio brew. I had a bunch of Anhua heicha recently and did basically all of it 7-10 grams in my 200 ml nixing and thought it all held up well. Curious if this will hold up as well in the big pot!
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LeoFox
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Location: Washington DC

Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:14 am

faj wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:48 am
LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:13 am
Personally, I can't do much more than 5g/100 ml heicha without being overwhelmed.
I would say 4-5g / 100ml is what I probably typically use for liu bao, but that is probably because that is the ratio I tend to gravitate to for most teas. I do not remember brewing parameters for liu bao being discussed much on the forum.

What do you mean by "overwhelmed"?
Overwhelmed by muddled flavors and energy.

I actually started by doing 8g/100 ml based on some website. That was too overwhelming, and one of my colleagues said I was wasting good tea this way and should only use half as much. Then I went down to 3-4g and I felt it was okay but a bit mild. 5g hit the sweet spot for me- but then again I don't drink this kind of tea often.
faj
Posts: 710
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:45 am
Location: Quebec

Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:21 am

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:14 am
I actually started by doing 8g/100 ml based on some website. That was too overwhelming, and one of my colleagues said I was wasting good tea this way and should only use half as much. Then I went down to 3-4g and I felt it was okay but a bit mild. 5g hit the sweet spot for me- but then again I don't drink this kind of tea often.
What is your typical infusion time for liu bao? I do not remember that being discussed much, if at all, around here, my only reference point being, I think, videos I saw online of people having a session (with no explicit mention of infusion duration, but you saw them doing the whole thing). My experience is these teas are really hard to overbrew, very forgiving, which might make it harder (and less relevant) to try to nail done very precise parameters. It might be a tradeoff between intensity and number of infusions rather than trying to avoid an outright bad infusion.
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LeoFox
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Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:25 am

I do a rinse, and then start around 15 seconds
Cookie
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2022 6:05 pm
Location: Midwest, USA

Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:14 pm

LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 10:14 am
faj wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:48 am
LeoFox wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 8:13 am
Personally, I can't do much more than 5g/100 ml heicha without being overwhelmed.
I would say 4-5g / 100ml is what I probably typically use for liu bao, but that is probably because that is the ratio I tend to gravitate to for most teas. I do not remember brewing parameters for liu bao being discussed much on the forum.

What do you mean by "overwhelmed"?
Overwhelmed by muddled flavors and energy.

I actually started by doing 8g/100 ml based on some website. That was too overwhelming, and one of my colleagues said I was wasting good tea this way and should only use half as much. Then I went down to 3-4g and I felt it was okay but a bit mild. 5g hit the sweet spot for me- but then again I don't drink this kind of tea often.
I actually transferred this tea to my nixing pot and left it for long steeps and really enjoyed it that way as well. Probably will do a similar set up for the next few brews, a few high ratio brews and then move to a large pot. Made for a very tasty brew overall.

As far as brew goes, at high ratios I do similar steeps starting at 15 seconds. Then when I moved it to the big pot I just let it go for 2-3+ minutes casually.
Andrew S
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:09 am

I guess that this is another area where general guidelines are useful to start with, as are other people's comments, but then we find what works best for us, while hopefully maintaining a willingness to experiment.

My approach for old puer and old liu bao is 10g per 160mL, adjusted for size (and sometimes adjusted for pour speed), and then my breath-based system, which is probably useless to everyone except for myself.

I always measure out my quantities on a scale, but I never time my steeps; instead, I count how many breaths I take for each set of three infusions. Generally, that's three breaths for each of the first three infusions, then often six breaths for the next three (or sometimes six, nine, twelve for the next three, or perhaps something else if needed), where the length of the breaths is not a constant (and is not consistent across all categories of tea...).

My watch tells me that my first three infusions for old tea generally are probably around fifteen, then ten, then twenty seconds, and then it's hard to generalise. For all of these infusions, if the tea feels young and raw, then I often shorten my breaths; if it gives a nice strong feeling each time, then I try to maintain consistency with a gradual increase in times; if it lacks feeling or flavour, then I slow the infusions down. Heavily-compressed tea changes a lot of that, of course (likewise, time between steeps can require changes).

So, for example, I take it nice and slow with the 1985 liu bao from Yee On that I've had (because it tends to focus on flavour rather than feeling and rewards longer infusions to get that flavour), but I am quicker for the 80s VIVE from EoT (because of its smaller leaves and its more powerful feeling).

But I am conscious that that is probably useless to everyone else, except as some vague comparison or point of reference. However, I would be happy to hear about other people's methods and thoughts.

Andrew
Cookie
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Location: Midwest, USA

Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:00 am

This morning was the "wine fragrance" liubao from 3B. This one was ok, but I preferred the medicine more. I did a similar brew structure to yesterday, a few low ratio brews and then transfer to the nixing 200ml pot to finish the brew. The tea had a nice salivating note and long finish. The actual flavor was just ok, like a rice wine but with a nice huiguan. The later steeps in the nixing brought out a nice camphor note.
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wave_code
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Location: Germany

Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:08 pm

Typically for me, especially when testing out new teas I'll go for 5g/100ml for liu bao as an easy rule of thumb. Over time I have found myself favoring more around 6g/100ml, but that really depends on the tea. 6g/70ml plus cramming big tea seed shells in that small a pot sounds to me like syrup or almost chewy depending on the tea :shock:, and you have zero room for anything to actually expand and open up First grade teas I usually will stick to around 5g because of the high energy and go for fewer/longer steeps, older teas or those with more twigs and stems I'll go higher on the ratio because they are mellower and some of them just need more tea if you want to drink them with shorter brewing times but go for longer. Leaf grade aside though, processing dictates a lot too as well as storage and age. Lighter fermentation or more 'raw' styles need totally different brewing technique from those I would use for an old VIVE. It is easy to get prescriptive that all these teas should be tar black and super thick - some are and taste better this way, but it can also be easy to wind up with something that is just heavy and dark and totally cover any nuance the tea has too.

I have a few more still to try of the Three Bears samples I got a while ago which I hope to dig in to this week. So far though nothing has really grabbed me and I thought maybe being smaller sample sizes they would need longer to settle back down after bringing them overseas, but with summer here in full swing and plenty of resting time we'll see if anything has improved.
Cookie
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Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:27 am

wave_code wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 4:08 pm
Typically for me, especially when testing out new teas I'll go for 5g/100ml for liu bao as an easy rule of thumb. Over time I have found myself favoring more around 6g/100ml, but that really depends on the tea. 6g/70ml plus cramming big tea seed shells in that small a pot sounds to me like syrup or almost chewy depending on the tea :shock:,
Well to quote three bears site on the medicine fragrance "There's a chewy thickness to the tea." So I figured this was the goal :D

Overall, I much prefer the 6-7g in my 200ml nixing with longer steeps. The extraction seems good and the nixing helps take some edge off the tea.

Todays tea is Osmanthus fragrance and overall it is good. Overall flavor is fairly similar to the medicine, a little juicier, a little sweeter, a little more woody. The main difference is this is very slick in the mouthfeel, almost oolong level of slick. Very easy going tea though and easy to drink. So far the favorite for me is medicine fragrance for the thicc texture. Still have a few more to try and then have enough to revisit all the samples one more time.
slipshod
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:36 pm
Location: Ireland

Sun Jul 17, 2022 2:19 am

so this is not strictly about heicha but more about how this journey stalled. I mean stalled because Ireland specifically is accepting tea only thru premium couriers dhl/ ups which means I have really to think what I buy and it needs to be a few months bulk order. which takes fun out of it. at same time it is probably cheaper in long run. and high gas prices will push revisit those teas that kept me warm. but, my latest gig was zangcha from curioustea. I preferred small coin version, for some reason I found them less acidic. I found as well if I book DPD, I don't pay customs. I'm sure I will get huge bill from revenue at the end of the year and they will forfeit my stash of tea as collateral. or I can go to prison with tea. I migh get early release for keeping staff high. anyway, during pandemic I explored few e.u. vendors. I bought few liubaos from "threesips.EU" aka "Taiwan tea for two" on eBay. I haven't got to most expensive one as was looking for daily drinker and was worried I get to like it. I have enough expensive habits. but I tried there T8663 xiuguan which is brilliant. Another accidental find was xiaguan black tea from "chenshi" German vendor.
slipshod
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:36 pm
Location: Ireland

Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:06 am

"1990’s Hong Kong Storage Aged Liu Bao" from thetea.pl is the best liubao i ever had and im trying to scramble my memory as to what it reminds me off.
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debunix
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Location: Los Angeles, CA

Tue Jul 19, 2022 11:27 pm

Seeking flavor elements to describe it for thinking of another tea to compare it to?
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wave_code
Posts: 575
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Location: Germany

Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:43 am

Trying to fight back against the heat this morning with some HK stored Liu an. Good tea for lazy slow brewing- comes out smooth and rich even with lighter water. 20 years has given it a nice typical ginseng and wood note and mellowed it out, though it still has some energy and a pleasant bitterness early on. Gets a good sweat going without being overpowering.

@slipshod it's a nice tea for sure. I have only had one or two sessions with it so far so I'm kind of still figuring it out - maybe that will be my afternoon project today. I feel like its a tea that is at an interesting transition point- its clearly getting older, but still isn't quite there yet- you can tell it is late 90s rather than early 90s tea. Given another 10 years and I feel it would be super nice and mellow and wish it could see the storage it already was in for that time, but it is also still really nice for drinking now. The price point on it though is really nice and it gives a nice chance for us with less market access to be able to taste an aging liu bao to get a sense of when/how these teas really change from middle to older tea and what happens both in terms of flavor and feel. I've certainly paid more for far lower quality material with not nearly as nice storage.
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DailyTX
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Location: United States

Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:17 pm

Another heat wave day in the West, quenching thirst with a big pot of 2005 Three Crane Liu Bao. Using an old zini pot with a smiling lion. Cheers!
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